An interesting biblical moment: God was denied (and booed) three times, then the cock crowed... and said the "ayes" have it. Seems to me to be really bad form when you boo God. Others have noticed as well. Striking God out of the platform, only to put Him back in out of political expediancy tells us volumes about this group.

Honestly, that's all you came away with from yesterday's speeches?

The only thing I would object to is the deliberate inclusion of 'God' for political points. It's a kind of false piety, but it's expected. The platform had previously mentioned the importance of faith several times, but that wouldn't have been enough to keep the opposition from finger-pointing. And it still isn't.

"Honestly, that's all you came away with from yesterday's speeches?"

Right?? I mean, the last two days have displayed some of the best speeches in many many years!!!

Here is an interesting blog (including comments) about the issue - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/the-godless-democrats-again/2012/09/05/623f662c-f76e-11e1-8398-0327ab83ab91_blog.html

@Heather - I think this is what he's talking about! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4z64YjfEaQ

No place for religion in government YET they have an opening prayer in congress every morning their in session...wheres the separation there???

You know, I'm not wild about the opening Congressional prayer. If they feel they have to call on God in order to do a good job, they just need to use their own brains and try harder. It's also that misplaced public piety that Jesus didn't care for.

The entire world has the clips of this, it was televised.

Liberals see Obama and government as their God.

At the RNC, the crowd shouts USA USA to the moaning of liberals who think it is "lowbrow".

At the DNR, the crowd shouts OBAMA OBAMA. Such a stark contrast, don't you think?

Pick your side.

How is it baseless? There is video...thats the base and its up to us to interpret it how we see it.

Yes, there is no liberal bias here on Patch, is there Heather.

Where do you see bias in any news story? I don't get it. They reported about and from the Rep. convention as well. I see no bias here.

It is baseless because a 2 minute clip of a vote does not give one insight to the reasons for their protest. You people ASSUME they are booing God, hate God and are without faith. Some may be...and that is their right. But I am guessing most there do believe in God or another higher power.

Right. They weren't booing God. They were booing the travesty of putting that amendment to a vote and then ignoring the results. I had heard about this incident on the news, but i had no idea how close the voice vote was or that the vote was taken three times with the results ignored.

And for those of you who will condemn the nay voters, just read the gospels to learn what Jesus had to say about people who wear their religion on their sleeves to get public approbation.

Keep it up Heather and Randy, remember what is said about hindsight and why y'all lost another election, LOL

socrates, one look at you and the 'arguments' you make exemplify why the GOP wins elections. They're willing to lie, manipulate the 'low-information' voter, and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Randy1949, for you to call anyone a low-information voter is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

If your faith is strong, why would you worry about such things? Isn't faith supposed to be a personal thing? Isn't God powerful enough to not have to be mentioned at every turn? Our country is full of many religions and beliefs. No one has the right to claim superiority over another faith. This is why religion needs to be OUT of government. Just because it is out of government doesn't mean it needs to be out of your life. Perhaps YOU are the one making government bigger in your own mind.

And no, I don't think there should be prayer before the sessions. But it doesn't bother me really. There are so many other things to worry about...and frankly I don't think God gives a hoot.

Heather, A simple understanding of faith would indicate, that if it is being discussed, "God gives a hoot".

What an unadulterated crock of pseudo-religiosity. Comments like yours are perfect examples of why religion and government should not be co-mingled.

Show us one instance where a legitimate media source referred to President Obama as a "deified being".

Just another example from the lunatic fringe of The American Taliban.

God gives a hoot? You really think God wants to be associated with any political party? I'll also point out that there was another provision on that amendment -- Jerusalem as capitol of Israel. It's a contentious issue that might have been best avoided, even though I personally support it.

I'm with Heather on this one. IMO, a God would care less about the laws of man.

I'm a Christian. I support the separation of Church and State because if the two are conjoined, who decides what the official belief system is? What if they don't choose mine? Why would we want bring that discourse down on ourselves?

@Mr. Munson- You really must be a special needs individual if you believe, in the hogwash your spewing.

Tom Munson: The godless? You mean like Ayn Rand?

I question the masculinity of any man who takes his wife's maiden name in a hyphenated form.

Nice try to dismiss a speech that embraces even you, Craig.

Renee, could you take your head out of the sand long enough to read the link I attached? I did not dismiss anything slick Willy said or did- ever.
Quit bitching about the economy- your past head man in the Oral office is why the jobs have left. China having Most Favored Nation status was the start of the shitstorm we have now. Barry has done nothing in 3 1/2 years.

IDs in a voice vote? Brilliant, Greg, just brilliant.

It wasn't my idea.

Torog.

Johnny:
1) Atheism has no religion-Hense atheism. We teach evolution because it has been verified many-MANY times over since Darwin
2) The Big Bang really happened. The universe actually did evolve. Protons, Electrons and Neutrons formed as per High Energy Physics
3) The country really REALLY was founded as a secular nation. Any educated historian will back me up
4) Don't know what a ph is

Bill Clinton didn't rape anyone. Stop spreading that. It is a flat out lie. He was charged. He was found innocent. End of story.

@FreeThoughtTroy -

Most state criminal codes consider sexual conduct engaged under the color of official authority to be tantamount to rape.

Did the act not occur with a member of the WH staff, in the WH? And was Clinton not the holder of the Office of the President at the time the act occurred?

Are you denying that the act occurred?

I have to stop commenting - just don't have the time or the energy to keep up with so much nonsense. However...I have to say...I listened to those Linda Tripp tapes. And Monica was a very willing participant in those acts. Sometimes it is harassment (if somehow forced or unwanted) and sometimes it is simply two adults making a choice - regardless of position. Needs to be judged on a case by case basis. Although, I don't think we are in any place to judge what others decide to do with their genitals. I could not care less if a politician has sex. It seems some of the right wingers are FAR too focused on the sexual lives of others and I find that sad and pathetic.

@HRG -

If it was so consensual, then why did anyone find out about it? You don't think that such scandals disgrace the office? Shouldn't the President be the ultimate leader by example in our country? Was Clinton trying to lead us into an era of committing and then lying about having committed adultery?

What I find so interesting is that it was philandering Newt Gingrich who was cheating on his wife at the same time he was in the process of bringing Clinton down. As Wiki says, Callista was Newt's third wife and mistress. He had the gall to file divorce papers to his 2nd wife while she was in the hospital fighting cancer. Hypocricy is my point folks. We don't need a litany of philandering politicians. There are enough of them on both sides of the political spectrum.

@Ann Wright -

Newt's a little off topic here, but yeah, he's a POS as well. But he also wasn't in high of a position as Clinton was when his indiscretions occurred, not that I'm offering that as kind of defense.

But when you occupy the highest office, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. Because of this indiscretions, and subsequently lying about them, Clinton is one of only two Presidents that have ever been impeached. That shames the office and the country.

My money says "IN GOD WE TRUST".

You may not think there is a God, and you have that right, but I know and love my God.

Your money is as unconstitutional as school prayer was before someone had the guts to stand up. That phrase was introduced on the coinage during the Red Scare of the 1950s to show those Godless Commies what for.

You have every right to believe and love your God, but do you think He's happy about appearing on the coinage? Not if Jesus and the moneylenders in the Temple is any indication.

The dollar bill in my wallet also has a pyramid with a glowing eye in stead of a brick on top. We all know that is sybolism and not fact.

I am not criticizing your beliefs. I am criticizing the cumpulsive need to keep personal mytholoigical believes in a secular (or what SHOULD be secular) government.

I can't tell you what the delegates booed. I can tell you I turned off the coverage Monday when the convension started praying at the end - ridiculous.

I agree in your right to beliefs. I just ask your agreement in my right to non-beliefs. Based on these agreements, I strongly believe in the seperation of church & state for these very reasons.

1)So why do the public schools get to teach the Religon of atheism "Evolution"
2)There is a God because we didn't evolve from a hydrogen atom
3)The country WAS founded as a Christian Nation
4) your a Ph...

I strongly believe in separation of liberalism and state, for many reasons. I just think you are wrong about our forefathers and religion, just because you believe something does not make it so.

Sounds like Johnny is not a fan of science.

Johnny is not a fan of reality. Ask him about the birthers, the truthers, and his notion that James Holmes was some kind of CIA secret project.

"In God We Trust" was put on our currency during the "Red Scare" time for no rational reason.

The Official Motto of the United States is "E Pluribus Unum".

A question: "which or what 'god' is being trusted"?

In God we trust has appeared on U.S. coins since 1864, I think coins are money.

During 1814, Francis Scott Key had an eventful September. "Traveling under a white flag, Key met with both an enemy general and admiral, recovered a war prisoner, became a war prisoner, watched a historical bombardment, lost a night's sleep, and wrote" what eventually became the American national anthem: The Star Spangled Banner.

The final stanza reads:
"And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

In 1864, the words were shortened to "In God We Trust" and applied to a newly designed two-cent coin.

Uh oh, Greg just schooled MrsPeel!

Oh no you didn't!

Greg just schooled me -- slightly. The phrase has been on coins for a while, but became our motto in 1956 and was placed on paper money: "In 1956, the nation was going through the height of the Cold War. As a result, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we trust". The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian.[15] The law was signed by President Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, and the motto was progressively added to paper money over a period from 1957 to 1966.[13] (Public Law 84-851)[16] The United States Code at 36 U.S.C. § 302, now states: "'In God we trust' is the national motto."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_we_trust

"Outside of constitutional objections, President Theodore Roosevelt took issue with placing the motto on coinage as he considered it sacrilegious to put the name of God on money."

I agree with Teddy.

Why won't any of the Democrats / liberals on this board answer Hoffa's question?

Hoffa - I can't (and won't) speak for every one here. I have stopped answering you for one reason alone.

You are an idiot.

I don't mean that as an insult. You just are. Your logic is circular. You ignore all facts and rationalism. You are an idiot pure and simple. I honestly wonder how you function in reality.

This sounds mean - I know. I honestly don't intent to sound so, but you are an idiot sir. I can't help that.

@FreeThoughtTroy -

Thank you for doing what liberals / Democrats do best when confronted with objective factual reality - name call.

Hoffa rests his case!

You only proved my point.

I only spoke for my self - not liberals as a whole. Your response is so bizarre... Objective factual reality???

I am not name calling. I am designating a title.

Again, I am sorry for how this sounds. I honestly believe you are just an idiot.

"I am not name calling. I am designating a title."

I've GOTTA remember that one!

@FreeThoughtTroy -

Well then, seeing as how we're just designating titles and not name calling, here's a title for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WltdNExOO6k

Perhaps Bush's tax cuts and the two wars did not directly cause the financial meltdown, but they did indeed cause the huge deficits and debt increases that continue to plague us. They also failed to bring the middle-class jobs and general prosperity the the trickle-down folks continue to promise.

At least under Clinton we had balanced budgets. As he said -- arithmetic.

@Randy1949 -

Debt increases - yes.

Today's deficit increases - no. Bush came very close to attaining a surplus in FY2007, so how can you attribute the wars and tax cuts to the current increases in the deficit, especially if you admit that the Bush policies had no bearing on the financial and jobs meltdown?

Clinton's policies are the real direct culprits behind our current economic and employment situation - there is no denying this. And yet, you still celebrate the man.

Can you explain such a blind allegiance?

D-bag of the Year?

Fair enough. I am sure I deserved it.
It was funny anyway. Thanks Hoffa

I'd like to weigh in on the question of whether Hoffa is an idiot. I wouldn't necessarily disagree, since the whole talking about himself in the 3rd person is such a red flag, but I think it's more likely that he's just a committed partisan. Johnny Blade, Alfred of the many aliases - now those guys are idiots.

So many of the rest of these Patch denizens (Hoffa, JB Schmidt, too many others to list) are just committed partisans, and I'm convinced that their commitment stems from one of two places. Either (1) they're being paid, which I could at least respect on some level, or (2) they're attracted to right-wing ideology because it appeals to their basic nature, which is that they're pricks and a--holes.

@Taoist -

Thanks for displaying your infinitely superior liberal elitist intellect to us "pricks and a--holes."

Your ignoring the primary question posed by Hoffa shows that you're little more than a blind and committed partisan yourself.

Cheers!

Fact: Bush and Cheney did not appear at the Republican convention. Their policies are not something Romney/Ryan want the voting public to remember. The Repubicans seem to want to swipe the era into the dust bin of history like a bad dream.

@Ann Wright -

Apparently you were not listening to the speeches. Many speakers, including Ryan, admitted that the Bush years were not something that true conservatives are proud of. That's why they're taking the party in a different direction - back to the core conservative roots.

Hoffa - in the third person, appears in so many Patch conversations it makes me believe that "the Hoffa" is a group that trolls the Patch, ready to pounce on any, any slightly left of center comment. Never answering questions but always twisting, double speaking and hiding behind the alleged liberal terrorists that threatened 'his' family business. It would be like me dismissing everyone who disagrees with me because a miscreant or two has vandalized my vehicles on more than one occasion, for, what I believe, is displaying liberal bumper stickers in a known conservative town.

@Hoffa You are correct in your analysis of those trade agreements. History has shown that whenever you vastly increase the labor pool it is good for business but bad for people. Labor costs drop sharply and so do the standard of living of most people. Did you know that at the height of the British Empire {free traders} that 1 in 3 young men were deemed unfit for military duty due to malnutrition? We have 46 million people on food stamps. Go figure.

@Renee -

So now Hoffa is actually multiple people that are a part of some kind of paid group?!?!

Yeah, you liberals love your conspiracy theories, don't you?

I can assure you, just as the Patch editors can back me up, that Hoffa is in fact one man paid by no one, thank you very much.

And Hoffa almost always answers every direct question posed to him by other commentators! It's the liberals that refuse to address the tough questions posited by Hoffa!

And Hoffa doesn't twist anything - he offers objective factual data, citing primary sources, and offers a logical analysis. Much more than the typical emotionally driven liberal posts or the liberals that rely on biased third party analysis.

You make fun of Hoffa for using a screen name, but refuse to reveal your complete identity to us. Either put up and use your full name or accept it for what it is.

Hoffa: Thank you for reminding the idiots about Bill Clitnon. To think he was there to smooth talk some people into Barry supporters is a joke.
I might add that no one has refutiated your post. Instead, some left handed wingnuts have changed the subject and attacked you personally.
Those of us who's IQ exceeds our age know you are 100% right.

Whyi should anyone anwer a "Third Person Nutcase"?

Mike gets it - Hoffa is 'da man!

Just like her testimony before the Democratic sub-committee of the House committee was nothing more than hearsay and non-expert opinion, thus having no evidentiary value what-so-ever.

And yet she's a law student?!?! Maybe she should ask for her money back from the law school, as she didn't even learn the basic rules of evidence effectively!

Or maybe she wasn't paying attention to her studies because she was too busy.... well, that's best left to the imagination in this case ;-p

Just as I'm sure that you and all the other men on that committee know all about problems with lady-parts and the natural desire for a woman to have control of fertility.

Some of the dumbest people I have ever known were in graduate school. I was seriously concerned with the ones wanting to be surgeons. Fluke is a perfect example of someone wrapped up in the emotion and politics and not the fact of anything.

You can afford smokes but not $7 for the pill?

@Randy1949 -

But Fluke did not directly speak of her own actual experiences - all she offered was hearsay and non-expert opinion. There's no evidentiary value in anything she said. If the Democrats actually cared about following the rules of evidence, her entire testimony should have been scrubbed from the record.

Not to mention that the purpose of the hearing in the committee was in regards to the objections of religious institutions being mandated by Obamacare to cover contraception against the will of their institutions. Fluke was not the head of a recognized religious institution. Her entire testimony was irrelevant to the purpose of the hearing. Again, Fluke was a law student at the time - she should have known this!!!

If that's the kind of lawyers being turned out of today's law school's, then my job is going to be a lot easier in the future!!!

Has anyone actually read Sandra Fluke's biography? She is a powerful advocate for women who have been abused and trafficked for sex and has helped numerous women. Since the House Oversight and Reform Committee chaired by Darryl Issa (R), refused to allow a woman on the panel to discuss the Conscience Clause exceptions in health care, the Democrats invited her to speak at the hearing so at least women would have a voice. She eloquently spoke about a friend who had polycystic ovary disease (a very painful disease) who needed the Pill to help her. It was costing her friend $100 per month and the insurance company was refusing to pay for it citing that she was using it for contraception rather than the disease. What did the voice of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh say? He went on an eight day enraged, obnoxious rant and called her a slut. This is the way Republicans debate and talk about an important subject, huh? It was so nasty that hundreds of his advertising sponsors pulled their money out of his show after outrage from the American public. Well, Clear Channel installed the King on 1500 AM channels during 20 years ago when big money sought to rule the airwaves. It worked for awhile but the Oxycontin addled brain is becoming more and more angry and bitter. Speaking of fear and anger - Rush Limbaugh embodies the words.

@Ann Wright -

What does any of what you wrote matter? Fluke's testimony should be scrubbed from all congressional records, as according to the official rules of evidence, because 1) it was irrelevant to the reason that the hearings were called, and 2) it was wholly comprised of hearsay and non-expert opinion. Such testimony does not meet official evidentiary standards of a congressional body.

Why bother having rules if we just ignore them whenever we feel like it?

And FYI - Rush does not speak for all conservatives. If you really want to play that game, then would it be fair to say that Ed Schultz speaks for all progressives? If so, how do you support Ed calling for his listeners to cheat in elections by voting as many times as they possibly could because the evilness of the opposition justified taking such extreme measures?

Come on, let's be fair here!

To understand Hoffa, he is the type of attorney you would want to hire if you were absolutely guilty of mass murder of innocent little children. He would argue every technicality, every tiny crack in the prosecutor's case, every niche and cranny in the case. He could get your sentence reduced from life to eighty years.

So goes his defense of dubious and obviously losing ultra-right wing causes. He puts the best defense and offense forward, argues it to death, and, that is just his job, he believes.
But how very poorly that trait translates to commenting on some of the very strange, twisted, and rotten planks in the Republican platform and other Republican chicaneries. In the end, that attorney himself becomes too engrossed with his client's salvation, hijacked by the sociopathic charm of the client, too ridiculous and desperate in his arguments, too stretched in what was at best thin logic to begin, and his integrity is lost on the courts, in this case, most if not all of the thinking readers and commenters of Patch.

And you would want a defense attorney that just takes your money and leaves you to hang? Now I understand your logic in supporting Obama.

@Dirk -

Hoffa gives you credit - you provide more laughs than most on the Patch boards!

All without wiping.

OMG.... when the Baggers routinely trot out "Joe the Plumber" to blather and shill they are proud of him. (Although he isn't a plulmber.)

But Sandra Fluke is "used" by the left. Of course the Drug-Addled Bloviating Gas Bag Limbaugh didn't "use her"? He ranted about her for a week to his "Ditto Heads". Referring to her as a "slut" and a "prostitute" with the classiness that he usually displays.

"Fear and Anger" is the underlying reason for the existance of the TEA BAGGERS.

Perhaps there is a bit of projection occuring here Steve.

Bill's problem is another body part that grows and disgraces the Presidential Seal. His lies are expected.
To think there are people who can not comprehend how he destroyed our economy would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Did anyone just hear that - that was Craig hitting the nail on the head!

@John Feia -

FYI - CNN isn't always right. Please cite a statute number or admit that Hoffa was right!

@Hoffa
I guess it really hurts you to be wrong. Admit it, your comment about Hillary's lack of presence at the DNC was foolish.

@John Feia -

I'm sorry, where's the citation to the federal statute proving your point? Hoffa already said that he does not trust CNN to be correct.

Try going to the US Code and actually reading the 1993 amendments to the Hatch Act. Just think, you'll actually learn something that apparently CNN doesn't even know!

@Hoffa
Your original question was about Hillary's attendance at the DNC. Does my CNN reference mean that Rice attended the '04 RNC? No. Also, look at my two comments. CNN wasn't my only reference for the implications of the Hatch amendment. It is very convenient for you to pick and choose what are reliable references as they apply to your positions. Hoffa was and is wrong. Deal with it or show us how you are not with more than your self serving comments.

@John Feia -

CNN is the only link you provided on this board. Your citation to Wikipedia on the other board in regards to this issue is also not a primary source.

The federal statute codifying the 1993 Amendments to the Hatch Act are a primary source.

Please provide the citation to the US Code statute that states that the Secretary of State is legally prohibited from attending a political function.

Actually, don't waste your time, because you can't - because it doesn't exist.

The current law allows the SoS to attend a political function so long as they are doing it off the clock (not on official duty) and the event is not occurring on federally owned property.

On the other board, Hoffa asked you if Clinton was incapable of scheduling a vacation during the week of the convention - you did not respond. Hoffa also asked you if the venue of the Dem Convention, The Time Warner Cable Arena, was federally owned land - again, you did not respond.

In all FACTUAL REALITY, it would have been very easy for Clinton to have scheduled a vacation this week had she wanted to attend the convention and the Time Warner Cable Arena is owned by the City of Charlotte - it is not federally owned property.

Therefor, if Clinton had wanted to attend the convention, she easily could have.

Hoffa rests his case - an admission from you that Hoffa is correct would be nice!

@Hoffa
Here is my original post regarding this:

@ Hoffa
"Why wasn't Hillary invited to speak at the convention?"

Because she in China doing her job.

You need to get your facts straight though.
"In 1974 Hatch Act restrictions on state and local government were watered down, and in 1993 the advocates for removing or reducing restrictions on the political activities of federal employees carried the day. The Hatch Act Reform Amendments of 1993 (107 Stat. 1001) removed the prohibition on participation in "political management or political campaigns." Federal employees are still forbidden, however, to use their authority to affect the results of an election. They are also forbidden to run for office in a partisan election, to solicit or receive political contributions, and to engage in political activities WHILE ON DUTY OR ON FEDERAL PROPERTY. The Merit Systems Protection Board and its Office of Special Counsel are responsible for enforcement of the Hatch Act"
William V. Luneburg. Hatch Act (1939). enotes.com

You are wrong. Why can't you admit it?

@Ann Wright -

You really need to stop trusting the media so much and actually start thinking for yourself!

Hoffa asked for citation to a primary source - the federal statute. Not a link a news media site.

Regarding the "Disillusioned Obama Supporter in Romney ad is actually a GOP staffer" - look closer. She did vote for Obama in 2008 and has since changed sides. Failure has a way of doing that, and she's not the only one that has changed sides since 2008. So where's the lie exactly?

Care to try again?

Secretary of State Clinton said that she didn't want to attend the DNC. It has nothing to do with laws or statutes.

If the Hoffa is a lawyer it would appear that he has few clients as he is often trolling on the Patch.

@MrsPeel -

Hoffa hasn't taken on any private clients in the last two years.

@Ann Wright -

Maybe if you could tell us wherein the ad lied, that would help.

What does it matter if she has since changed sides - isn't that the whole point of the ad to begin with? So what was so misleading exactly?

And Hoffa could care less about Fox News. When has Hoffa ever cited to Fox News? Hoffa doesn't even watch Fox News, or any media news for that matter. Hoffa only uses the media to alert him to a story, then Hoffa goes directly to the primary source.

@Ann Wright I would strongly suggest that people do not watch any of the cable news networks. Their journalistic standards are terrible. They all admit that they do not practice investigative journalism because of financial costs. This is half-baked. There are those who call the cable news networks the corporate news network. They have their own agenda.

Why didn't the pro-Obama ad cite that the women in it claiming to be disenchanted Republicans were really life long Democrats according to voter registration and campaign donation records?

http://www.examiner.com/article/second-fake-republican-woman-discovered-new-obama-ad

The Romney ad at least featured a person that really did previously vote for Obama - this is an uncontested fact.

If these two campaign ads are any basis as to who is the more honest candidate, Romney has Obama beat by a long shot!

@Ann Wright -

The real challenge would be for you to actually come up with some factually based criticisms of the Romney/Ryan team.

The Hoffa is happy when he can spew his crap. Even though he denies it, it still seems as he is operating from his famiies basement. Anyone who refers to themselves in the Third Person has mental problems. And certainly The Hoffa displays the symptoms.

Any thread that the Hoffa Bot gets involved in it then dominates the discussion with endless screeds.

Ah yes, MrsPeel - one of Hoffa's biggest fans!

Love you too MrsPeel ;-)

Ann, it is sometimes pointless as Hoffa can't accept the truth or admit when he is wrong. He will defend the Romney/Ryan lies and try to make foolish claims as to how they are true. It is fun though to get him or her (who knows since this person hides behind a veil) to flounder in his or her's attempts at self justification for existence with comments on a Patch.

I'll do it. Me love you long time....What are we doing?

@John Feia -

Maybe if you would explain your comments when asked or provide the primary source information to back up your claims, you'd be as respected as Hoffa on the Patch boards!

You are a funny little person...

I appreciate you though. You make it very easy to elicit foolish responses that reveal who you really are.

@Mike -

Answer: Because Hoffa's name is just so darn cool to type and say, of course ;-)

And just like 'Everybody Loves Raymond,' everybody loves Hoffa!

@MrsPeel -

That's so kind of you - Hoffa knew that you loved Hoffa ;-)

It's Mitt Romney who should be ashamed of making political hay off this disgusting incident. As we all know, he's such a genius when it comes to foreign policy.

The response of the Libyan government to this disgraceful attack on our embassy will determine what the US needs to do. All else is premature.

Do Democrats really want to keep spiking the Osama bin Laden football after this???

Ok - so the President is an apologist and coward until the moment the point is made he made a tough, smart and descisive call - now he's spiking the football

Get your arguments straight. Of couse that shouldn't surprise me when I hear the President called a Fascist AND a Socialist. - two comletely oposing views that can no way be joined.

Try again. This line of thought fails.

THAT'S IT
One: Who cares what religion the President is? I have quite a lot of Liberal friend who are Chrisian and I don't blame them for your idiot, bigeoted out-of-line posts. Painting all of Islam with the same brush of these protesters is obscene

Two: one more time - again: the President is Christian. Don't you bag on Jerimiah Wright - the Christian pastor? Pick a side here... you can't call him a Muslim then hold him to the teachings of a Christian pastor.

Three: this is just another reason why religion does more harm than good. Didn't the protestors lash out for some slight agains the Koran? Isn't your racism in your posts based on religious bigeotry? Or are you a racist as most Muslims are stereo typically brown?

Either choice makes you discusting.

Can I accuse you of covering for the cultists of Christianity? I think I will. Are you a Skin Head or Radical Militia or just your average KKK?

Imam Obama has this blood on his hands….
The Democrats are traitors, it wasn’t hard to see this coming; under the circumstances of the last year, security at every American embassy in muslim countries should have been heavily enhanced with US Marines.

Or maybe you wait and get all the details before you act. Stories coming out say that several Libyans were trying to rescue the Americans. Strafing runs don't exactly discern who the "enemy" in the crowd is. I'm guessing the President has a bit more information than you or I do.

A mature statesman will wait and see what the Libyan government does about a group of criminals doing fatal violence against a foreign embassy. So far, we're not at war with Libya, nor are they at war with us. If the response of the Libyan government is unsatisfactory, indicating that they have more sympathy with the mob of criminals, the US should sever diplomatic relations and cease any kind of foreign aid.

Randy, the friendly Libyans who were acting as security for the embassy steer the angry Muslims to the safe building so the Americans can be killed. Don't know where you get your news....thats right, MSNBC.

As I said,let's see what the Libyan government does about it before rattling sabres. As far as I'm concerning, we wasted our money helping them throw off Ghaddafi, and I'd like to let that entire area of the world wallow in its own crapulousness.

Obama just released a statement apologizing and said he hopes none of the attackers were injured in the process……….

Obama looks like the fool he is …………… again.

A statement like that requires a link to back it up.

You sound just as crazy as the people who take something from YouTube and decide to retaliate against our country. Traitors? Stalinists? Iman Obama? You are no better than the extremists who incite people to violence. Or perhaps that is your goal.

@Renee- if Obama was white, we would not be hearing any of this.

NoThoughtsTroy,

You must be 12 years old and not remember how the liberals and Democrats demonized GWB daily after 9/11. Isn't it time for your nap?

Actually - I am not 12. I remember 9/11 very well. I remember 9/12, 9/13, etc. I remember the country being more united than ever. I remember both houses of Congress standing together outside the capital building united behind our President and his actions against Al Quaeda. Once Mr. Bush started pointing us in the direction of Iraq, however, more began to ask questions. When the 9/11 Commission began investigating, then it was discovered what a bungling fool George W. Bush was.

I am wide awake and sitting at the adult table H.E. It's time for you to grow up and join us.

Security of our embassies, and it’s ambassador is the responsibilty of the Secretary of State and our Commander-in-Chief.

What does it say when a disorganized mob…not a military unit…not a highly trained terrorist team….A FRACKIN MOB!!! and only a few armed, can take down your embassy, drag your ambassador out into the street, torture, and kill him?

What does that say about the leadership of this administration?

Weak, Cowardly, Foolish…it’s no wonder no one in the world respects us anymore. Who would respect an America led by this idiot. A man who can’t even protect his own ambassador, and when they drag him into the streets and kill him?

He tells the American people and the Ambassador’s family that the attacking Mob at least took our ambassador to the hospital after mutilating him.

I am embarrassed to be an American under this president.

As the investigation is ongoing, the evidence is pointing more and more (I know-I know... evidence really doesn't make a difference to Tea Party Conservatives) toward a terrorist attack from either Al Quaeda or an Al Quaeda type group.

Maybe we should all take the President's advice and keep out yaps shut until we know the facts.

I know-I know.... Facts mean nothing to Tea Party Conservatives

How did the Dixie Chicks fair when they said they were embarassed to be an American under George W. Bush?

Oh, yeah - they were trashed for being Un-American.

Alright H.E. This means you are Un-American. When can we expect you to leave the country?

I would suggest Syria. They have a Conservative Dictator that has a strong hand toward gov. officials. He is a religious conservative, too. He sounds right up your alley.