Totally agree. It's time to stop the insanity Culture of Alcohol that Wisconsin supports and promotes. Few social gatherings can occur without alcohol...I atteneded a picnic last weekend -hosted by a large coorporation- where NO alcohol was served nor did I see any carried around. GREAT event! 3,4,5,7,9,11 DUI's is nothing to brag about. Where's the outrage at those figures? Let's start a strong campaign to change the laws...now. You or someone in your family could be the next victim of this state's liberal position on the abuse of alcohol. Seems like the abuse of innocents doesn't matter, does it?

It is not even a misdemeanor - yet.

Unless it just recently changed, the first offence in WI is a traffic violation, not a misdemeanor.

I would totally support this IF they made some changes to account for the BAC more intelligently. There is a massive difference between someone being .09 (which was legal years ago) and being .12 or higher. The tradeoff to making earlier offenses felonys should be making lower BACs a simple BUT EXPENSIVE ticket. I am not sure whether anyone should be a fellon on first mistake, however, at some BAC level that should be the case. Anyone driving who is completely trashed should always go straight to the felony level. Likewise, while I personally think .09 should only be a ticket for anyone who has never crossed the higher level cutoff (.12 or so), it should count as a repeat offense for anyone who had crossed the .12 in the past. .12 is a guess at what would make the right cutoff. The problem with BAC level is it is sort of like BMI, it doesnt provide the most accurate and appropriate measurement for everyone. It does not really take into account tolerance. Some people are pretty tipsy at a low BAC and others are quite functional at a .08 BAC. Anyway, it should be based on severity of violation more than number of times.

JW, no one is 100% functional at 0.08, 0.03 maybe, but we are not talking about that.

Hear hear!!!! PERFECT!!!
You get ONE chance...pay a penalty...and if you do it again, you get the book thrown at you. AMEN!!!

I don't think the answer is more cabs. I think the answer is less drunks. If you're going out with a group, have a designated driver. Or, how about this....DRINK RESPONSIBLY!! And if you're not able to drive when you're done drinking, there's more than cabs...there are friends..there are busses....there are relatives...there are parents who always say "if you have had too much to drink, call me, I don't care what time!"

But ya know...bottom line....know when to stop drinking. And if you can't stop drinking, drink at home where the only one who gets injured will be YOU when you fall down and whack your head on something.

Three years ago I called a cab(s) to take me downtown for an event that I knew would involve drinking. I called at 7:00pm and was instructed to leave a message, and by 10:00pm I still had not heard from them, and calls were still going to voicemail. Good thing I wasn't already out or I would have never gotten home. How is it that you can get a cab in Hurley with no problem, but not in Racine? We now have Safe Ride though. Has anyone on here had a chance to use it yet?

Tell that to the victims.

What would be the purpose of taking away hunting rights of a person based on getting two drunk drivings? I drank a lot when I was younger but that doesn't make me a bad person forever. Stiffen penalties, but keep the felony convictions to habitual OWI offenders.

Maybe the purpose would be that a person who likes to hunt would take into consideration the fact that he won't be able to hunt anymore if he does it again, and then make the choice to NOT drink and drive again. Drinking isn't the issue. Drinking and DRIVING is. If you want to get blotto, go ahead and do it, just don't get behind the wheel and drive afterwards. For gosh sakes, this is why we have such an issue here...people feeling more sorry for the drunk drivers losing their "rights" than they do for their victims losing their lives! How about a little bit of sympathy for the innocent victims who had no control over their fate? Tougher penalties would at least make people think twice about drinking and driving. And if they don't, well then....let the felony charge stick.

You write assuming there was a victim. The punishment you propose does not fit the crime.

You have to wait until someone is killed or severely injured? You want to still, since you obviously are incapable of learning that you have a problem, drink and hunt?

Bottom line...don't commit the crime if you don't want to be penalized. It's that easy. You wanna drink, go ahead and do it. But don't endanger others by your lack of sensibility, responsibility and good judgment. And if you do, well then...you deserve what you get. Easy decision here....don't drink yourself blotto...or if you must, then DON'T DRIVE. Easy peasy.

That argument is lame superdave five. Someone with 5 convictions should never drive again, and personally I don't want to be around a drunk with a gun either so they should have their hunting rights revoked as well. Throw in voting rights too because can they really make a rational decision on that either if they or drunk. Having to live your life as a felon should absolutely be a consequence.

@superdavefive -- I'm sure you know that some people never get the point, no matter how many pull-overs and OWI convictions. Even with a revoked license, they'll keep on drinking and driving. We need to either incarcerate those people or find a way to render them unable to start an automobile. Alcohol-sniffing ignition locks are useless. But an ignition that required a certain level of alertness and reaction time is quite feasible in this age of Smart Phones and hand-held games.

I think I might appreciate one of those when I'm 86 and cold sober. It might keep me from killing myself or someone else.

Dave, there are so many people who have been stopped for drunk driving, more than five times, and still do not get the idea as to how dangerous they are to others. What about those who have lost their licenses, and still they are stopped for DUI? Did they get the idea? No, they think that they are super-human, and can do no wrong.

First of all, this is why I have always maintained that lowering the legal limit is not the answer. 9 out of 10 times, it's the person who blows .18 or higher that is causing the problem. That being said....when my husband and I go out, ONE of us will have ONE drink. The other can have however many he or she wants. The one who is driving has one drink - or none. It's called being responsible.

".08 for some people is 2 beers." Yes, if you are a 80 pound woman, 2 beers in 2 hours is .08.

So, yes, Sheepshead, if you know any 80 pound females, do tell them that 2 beers in 2 hours would put them over the limit.

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org

Maybe you think you feel fine but perhaps you are not. .08 is determined by body size, food in the stomach, metabolic rate. 2 beers for you is not the same as 2 beers for a 90 lb woman that has not eaten all day.

that is not the problem. it is a scientific fact that a person who consumes any amount of alcohol has their reaction time diminished.

Well Im certainly not an 80lb woman, and if that is true, thanks for clearing that up for me. Because if I do go to a bar, which now a days doesn't happen often, I always stick to 2 beers, I do feel fine, and thats why I stop there.

And quite honestly....not everyone who drinks and drives is an alcoholic. For some, even the DRINKING is a choice.

Agree with this....saw one young lady not long ago who had a cell phone in one hand and a half-eaten apple in the other...I don't know what she was using to steer - perhaps her knees??

I think Karen should run for political office. We'd have to build a lot of prisons to hold all of the non-violent felons she plans to target.

superdavefive - I agree with everything Karen has had to say. Plowing into someone while drunk driving seems to be a violent event. What is more reckless than getting into 2 tons of steel while you are impaired?

No, Nuitari, 2 drinks would not "be around .08" .. unless you are an 80 pound female.

Here's a more factual scenario. Your family function takes ~3 hours. The 175 pound man gets 5 beers, and he's still under .08. The 6th beer, he's over.

Wisconsin being full of the more portly, the man is more like 200, hey, he gets to drink an entire 6-pack and he'll STILL be under the limit of .08.

So don't spew that crap that 2 drinks = over the limit in an attempt to make the current laws look harsh. For most non-tiny people, .08 is plenty of drinking.

http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org

So tell me, why are so many drivers cited for 0.08? They were doing something wrong to alert the cop pulling him/her over.

And 0.08 was chosen because:
The NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has found that at 0.08 or below there are problems with, divided attention, tracking performance, information processing, psychomotor skills, visual functions, simulator driving tests, and reaction time, and less than 0.10 for concentrated attention and perception. This comes from a 1994 analysis of 177 published studies. (http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/aclimit.pdf p. 10) Incidentally, less than 0.08 showed impairment some of those driving skills.

Be aware before you turn that key. You might not feel the effect, but it is there.

That makes me wonder how many drivers are pulled over for 'suspicious' driving behavior and have to be let go because they haven't been drinking, yet their reactions times and alertness are compromised by other things.

I do think our culture of 'social drinking' which often means consuming alcohol at a party or a tavern and then having to travel distances to get home is a part of this problem.

Many of you are getting off of the issue. First, get the drunk drivers off the road. Then, if you have a problem with the people who do dumb things while driving, we can address those issues. Stay on track, and help solve this problem, first.

No, putting all the attention on alcohol ignores the danger from other factors that compromise drivers.

"Oh, I haven't slept in 36 hours, but I'm sure I can make it home safely . . ."

"I take Oxycontin for my pain, but it's legally prescribed. I'm not like one of those drunk drivers . . ."

Either one of those people is quite capable of killing someone, even though they haven't drunk a drop of alcohol.

Kathy,
I agree with you on this one. If you have money for alcohol, you can afford your medication. I am living on $500 per month and about $300 of it goes for meds and doctor visits. The other $200 goes towards food and toiletries. I have always taken care of myself and NEVER have skipped my meds or doctor's visits. This is why I am so angry that my ex was allowed by the courts to use my illness against me and make me answer ON THE STAND to taking Prozac and Wellbuterin! Yes, I had a really bad 2010 and lost control over my mental illness due to harassment from my ex that I HAD NO CONTROL OVER!!!! Trust me...I would rather be diabetic or have some illness that people understand and doesn't cause you to lose your ability to reason if pushed to the edge.

I have be dissociative episode free now for two years. Since the accident, I have cut off all communication with my ex, have been through PTSD treatment, and have quit working (doctor's orders.)

All I'm saying is that I don't think I should be labeled a felon for what I did! I accept the consequences, but I think this was put on me only because my ex knows Atty. Tim Kay (who is now a Waukesha judge...imagine that.) My attorney said he has never seen the book thrown at anyone so harshly. Tim Kay (my ex's divorce attorney) was also the state prosecutor "randomly" selected for this case... hmmmmm?

@anonymous -- The exacerbation of your illness may not have been under your control, but getting behind the wheel of a car was. If you had killed someone, illness or not, they'd be just as dead. That's where the felony comes in.

People with mental illnesses that cause decreased judgement should probably not have drivers licenses or cars.

Randy!
Yes! I totally agree with you! I don't own a car anymore and don't drive! I admit whole heartedly that I am not mentally stable! I even have a doctor that will attest to that! However, that brings me to my next question... how am I supposed to live? I have a felony so I can't get Section 8 housing and the state has turned me down twice for SSDI! I even had a daughter that I gave up for adoption about a year ago because I admit that I can't take care of her. I called Waukesha HUD and told them my situation and they said that my only option was to "hit the streets."

I do have an attorney to help me with SSDI but he says that it can take 3 or 4 YEARS to get it (I'm about two years into the process!) Meanwhile, I have to be a "legal prostitute" to avoid being homeless? Do I REALLY deserve THIS?

@ Anonymous & Randy- EXACTLY what Randy pointed out, that being; perhaps you should have not been driving at all. When I could work no more and filed for SSDI I started a new treatment with new meds. When approved for SSDI I decided I wanted to try and work PT. I drove for county ride share taxi, during my comeback my meds were switched again. The new meds affected my driving, I stopped working and driving. #1 - One of the meds for pain and I could get a ticket for that. #2- I could not live with myself if I caused any issues. IE: one time while driving I forgot where I was going and why on the road I was on. So...even knowing you have episodes you still made the choice to continue driving, and you were drinking. You're husband (ex) did not force you into a car, YOU made the choice. The court will never see it any different. Shame on doctors for not advising you to not drive. I am a firm believer that people with mental illness need a representative to assist in life choices, sadly there are not enough people to place in these positions. People with mental illness are still viewed as a threat to themselves and society, it's an out-dated mindset as it is the medicines that stabelize. It sounds like you got a raw deal but let go of the hate, your posts tremble of anger. Move forward VS stewing over what happened because you cannot change that. You have the power to change the future, won't be easy but nothin worthwhile ever is.

@Kathy -- People with certain forms of mental illness ARE a danger to themselves and others unless they can develop the insight into their own conditions that warns them that their judgment can be very poor even on medication. Bi-polar individuals can feel so grandiose at the top of the cycle that they decide not to take their meds or that they can drink and drive. Conversely, the depression can lead to reckless behavior.

I had a bi-polar relative who took her own life in an auto crash, seemingly with no thought to the other deaths and injuries that might have been caused. What do we do with these individuals? I have no idea, but institutionalization or incarceration might be the last resort for people who cannot control themselves.

Well, yes, I agree! I shouldn't have been driving at all. But I honestly had no idea that the clonazapam prescribed to me would have this effect on me when mixed with my extreme stress. Right after the accident, I was taken directly to the mental hospital where I spent a week. The doctors there explained how clonazapam was making me dissociate (dissociating means that you act without being aware of it.) Both OWI's occurred within the short period of time that I was taking PRESCRIBED clonazapam. I quit taking it immediately and sold my car. I have not driven since the accident nor have I taken any other prescription benzos. I really had no idea that prescribed meds could have this effect on me. Okay...I'm done. Everyone keeps telling me it is my fault for dissociating...whatever. I don't take the damn pills or own a car. I haven't since I was given the information about the drug. I have even quit working and only leave the house for groceries and doctor appointments. My $500 per month runs out soon and this is the money I spend on meds, food, and doctors. Hopefully I get SSDI benefits before that happens... it doesn't look hopeful.

I say just shoot us... it's more cost effective.

I'm sorry, but the first OWI should have been a clue, especially mixing tranquilizers with alcohol. One can't complain about the second offense being a felony under those circumstances.

Randy - I agree to a point.
@ Anonymous: More excuses. "I did not know the med did this and that...." i RESEARCH every medication the doctor gives me. The FDA requires the pharmacy to give you information about RX...READ IT. Now your anger turned on forum posters with a passive aggressive statement of "just shoot us...." All the more reason I am for loss of DL after 1st offense because someone like you on the second offense got into a wreck and could have killed someone....Like Randy stated, the first one should have been a wake up call. Instead more excuses...just like my neighbor ...who still drinks and drives because her life situation is not her fault and no one helps her. No one helps me either and I didn't break any laws. *insert violin* Im not trying to be mean...it's just reality. MOVE FORWARD.

PS @ Anonymous; You stated not drinking for two years. Congrats - you have beaten odds for relapse so give yourself some credit. You're not the total mess you see yourself as. ;-)

@Kathy -- I'm usually much more sympathetic, but I began to catch a tone here. It was everybody's fault but anonymous's. "My husband caused me stress and made me take tranquilizers and drink, and then he stole my money, and now you people made me a felon so I can't work." A therapist might say there's still some work to be done here. Prescriptions say right on the bottle not to mix with alcohol.

About mental illness, modern medicine has its limitations still. With bi-polar disorder, medication only eases the highs and lows; it doesn't flatten them entirely. Without an understanding of this, a person may make some very poor decisions during the highs and lows. It may get so bad as to be beyond their control. And then they, and the rest of us, need protection.

I can't work because I have an adrenal disorder...nothing to do with the felony. I see I will get no sympathy here or anywhere else.
Goodbye.

So Anonymous, you came to a forum about drunk driving laws as a two time offender seeking sympathy? Hmmm you cannot work now because of PTSD and adrenal disorder? You're a felon so you qualify for no sec 8 housing or asst. WOW. I have a very painful syndrome and worked , I also worked thru chemo,I worked until my legs gave out and then even after I got SSDI I went back to try and work. You want sympathy from me? You appear to have some computer skills, all the time you spend posting could have been put to some other gainful time. my .02. People help those who try to help themselves.

Congratulations AWD -- you just added sexism to your already avowed racism.

So what are the talking points on the issue AWD, really no need for personal attacks on a forum. OH and PSSSST - As to your claim of 82% AA members beinbg women. I do not believe there is any exact data on gender of AA members, it's called anonymous for a reason.

I am a non-drinking alcoholic, or a recovered one. Whatever way you want to say it. In 1978, I drove home, a mile away from the restaurant I was at, without remembering what I did on the way home. I sat down in a chair, and cried!!! Realizing that I could have killed someone, and would not have remembered it!!! That was my last alcohol drink. Women have the problem, too. Please get your facts straight before you make those type of statements. It does not take alcohol to make a male, a man. The desire to have a drink stays with you, for all of your life. You just need to have the faith to not have a drink. I have respect for men, and women, who do not drink alcohol. especially when it is promoted so heavily by the beer, and liquor, industries.

AWD, you are so far off base. No, I don't hate drinking. I hate the irresponsibility that goes along with it. If you want to drink, drink! Just don't put others at risk because of your choices. The man who thought he could handle his booze and still thought he could drive killed my friend's four year old son in broad daylight and then left the scene of the accident, leaving my friend holding his dying son in his arms.

If you truly think that women are the only people getting pulled over for OWI and that men can drink as much as they want and then drive a car responsibly, you are beyond help.

A 2004 study had the female AA population at 35%. Google is your friend.

https://www.rienner.com/uploads/49aea19b76747.pdf

@AWD....LMAO. You just keep getting better over time. Any more posts like this last one and they'll be trying to identify you so they can come and take you away, putting you on some good psychoactive medication. The only good thing about that is that you'll have to give up your CC permit and have your weapons confiscated.

Really AWD? That thinking went away in the 60s. I suppose you subscribe to the area of thought that permits a husband to beat his wife.

ugh... fire good.... woman.... bad drivers... bad drinkers... ugh... me go bed now....

see my post below. by now these people have learned what the law is about being in your car while sleeping or whatever. those people had the right to defend themselves and to an attorney, a court trial or a jury trial. the law is very precise in those cases. the issue of being a felony depends on what number of convictions there had been on the person's record, not what they were doing at time of arrest. in WI if this is a 1st OWI conviction it is a civil case in municipal court with no jail time, but with other penalties.

As a former police office with the certification to administer the Operating While Impaired tests and the Intoxoimeter (machine at the station that measures BAC) I can tell you from the comment above that ///"A person who has too much to drink decides to sleep in his car rather than drive. Cop finds him and gives him a ticket for drunk driving. Is that a felony..." UNLESS they are passed out with the keys in the ignition and the motor running - THEN they might get a ticket.

most municipalities only have a holding cell to keep prisoners for a short period of time.

unless your an NFL player....part of the problem is the laws are never enforced as written...depends on who you are or what attorney you can afford...

Good For Florida!! I wish Wisconsin would have something like this. Even half of this would be better!

It's pretty simple, the citation is called operating a vehicle while intoxicated..leave the keys out of the ignition if you have been drinking. To me it is like the people who drive with expired tags for months after expiration, and then when pulled over and ticketed they will complain that they HAD to get to work...yet on the way to the grocery store.

To be more specific, the actual case law is that they must have manipulated the controls necessary to put the vehicle in motion. The car actually does not have to be running. All else appears correct.

You know for me, the thought of getting pulled over from driving drunk is enough to keep me from doing so. Most adults that have the common sense, it will be enough.
Unfortunetly, many many many people DONT have COMMON SENSE! So I agree trying anything is better than saying.."we just have to deal with it". I will NOT accept anyone taking my children, because "we just have to deal with it. Really?? I hate to be your child.

Thank you. This is all I am saying. No one actually got hurt in the accident. I served my sentence. I've been through counseling. I've paid my fines. I don't drink anymore. I don't own a car anymore. Isn't that enough? I have an adrenal disorder & suffer from major depression. Because I'm labeled a felon and gave my newborn baby up for adoption last year to a local family that could care for her right before serving my sentence (I chose NOT to have an abortion,) I cannot get Section 8 housing or Badger Care. So now I need to choose between being homeless or a legal prostitute. My point is, I did my time and paid my dues. DO I REALLY DESERVE TO HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BEEING HOMELESS OR A LEGAL PROSTITUTE WHILE WAITING 3 OR 4 YEARS TO GET SS DISABILITY BECAUSE I HAVE A DUI FELONY?

What is a 'legal prostitute'?

Highly unlikely you will get SSDI for depression and adrenal disorder. In another area you stated PTSD...which is it? Nothing is physically preventing you from working, the adrenal is treatable. The SSDI lawyer will tell you otherwise, he gets 20%. SSDI benefits are approved based on 2 mental and one physical or 2 physical and one mental that prevents work for 12 months plus or will end in death. I got my SSDI with no lawyer, and I've tried to go back to work twice. Referring to yourself as a legal prostitute says to me you are living with a man and having sex in exchange for shelter. Does he know this? I so, this is enough to qualify for womans shelter, call advocates. Honestly I think you should try and work, feeling productive might see you gaining a better view of yourself VS playing the victim. "No one actually got hurt" as to your drinking citiations. I thought one time you said car damage and person paid off - thats emotional stress, or are you only allowed that?

Wisconsin has 5x as many drunks as any other state... perhaps more. Locking them all up would bankrupt the state.

@Anonymous: I have empathy for you, empathy not sympathy. It sounds to me like you are blaming mental illness and marriage for DUI's? I hope I am wrong because real recovery is about being accountable. Life is about choices, sadly poor choices have consequences. You made the choice TWICE to drink and drive. My neighbor has 5 DUI's and blames that on being bi-polar, yet she refuses to take her medication, she blames everyone for her losses as well.

You Lost Everything? Hmmm I bet your still driving. Past Biz owner nd now Im a cripple who's husband ran off with a married woman, he drained the accounts and left me with all the bills and no way to get around. I didn't make a choice to be cripple, or to have my husband do the cruel things he is. I did though chose not to be a victim and to rebuild. Your journey to ruins a bit different but the path to self worth and accomplishment the same. Walk Like a Goddess mDear. Best Wishes...

In response to Kathy... NO, I am NOT driving. I do not even own a car. I take my medication daily (always have) and since the accident (the first OWI was about nine months prior to the second (about 1.5 years into the divorce. When you dissociate, you have no control over it (you only have control over the stress that triggers an episode.) So I quit working immediately and filed for SSDI, since I can only control the stress in my life which leads to these dissociative episodes where I start drinking and try to run or wake up in someone's yard or some horrible place.

Since quitting working, cutting off all contact with my ex, and going through extensive therapy for PTSD and major depression (including inpatient treatment) I haven't had any more dissociative episodes in just over two years. My doctor says I can't work or have any contact with my ex or I will relapse, however, I've been denied for SSDI twice now (it's been over two years.)

I guess I'm just sick of hearing how this was ALL my fault! How could I have stopped contact with my ex in the middle of a horrible divorce? He harassed me daily. Driving me to a nervous breakdown was HIS plan and HIS PLAN worked. What about HIS share of the responsibility? Is it okay to use someone's illness against them, stalk them, and drag them down until they "snap?"

Now that I'm a felon I can't get Section 8 housing. I live with my boyfriend who financially supports me... be a prostitute or be homeless... Now THAT'S a CHOICE!