@Chris Larsen...A great many of these people making threats aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

I don't think you should assume all republicans support Scott Walker. Many Republicans do not.

Like Walker's kids ?

Walker now, Kasich later

So let me see if I got this straight. The Dems are destroying their own recall petitions because they want to make the Republicans look bad? Sounds like you went to Rove University my friend. Do you not get that there is nothing more the Dems can do to make the WI Republicans look bad? I mean really -- all the Dems have to do is sit back and watch the WI Republicans self-destruct.

Paranoid a little?..........or a lot? The recall petitions are being destroyed by Walker supporters, if you think that's OK, then that just supports the idea in all our heads that Republicans have lost all sense of integrity, honesty, decency or truthfulness. Yep, pretty much confirms it.

For those who don't know Saul Alinksky, he's Obama's idol, a pure socialist if there ever was one.

Nate -- Were you born stupid or did you study?

@enicar333...If you would have really read Saul Alinsky you would know his writings addressed community organizing. It's not only the left hat has used his principles but also the right. Ask Karl Rove.

"Rules for Radicals" was written as a vehicle for change to combat social injustice. Saul Alinsky never was affiliated with any political party or organizations that he taught how to organize. He rejected communism and strict socialism. Your picking through his writings is doing a great disservice and is misleading.

@Nate -- Alinsky was a genius at organizing...so much so that the Republithugs and Teanderthals now use his book as their own bible for organizing. Maybe you should consider joining another movement since the Republithugs and Teanderthals are basically endorsing Alinsky's genius.

Thanks for the tips. I'm saving this list for further use.

@mau
Ha ha. Many suspect Vander Leest, the TeaGOP candidate faked his own breakin.
The Republicans should have vetted him better (I wonder if they vetted him at all). Expand your horizons beyond the WaTimes for some enlightenment.

http://foxtrot-echo.blogspot.com/2011/04/cujo-burglarizes-recall-hansen-office.html#comment-186334073

...

Organizers of the effort, in an email to media, blamed the break-in on “the (opposition) of ‘Recall Dave Hansen.’” Police said they did not have descriptions of suspects...

<snip>

... "There were some petitions stolen, our computer is missing, some of the recall signs and they cleaned us out of all our recall T-shirts," says Hansen recall organizer, David Vander Leest.

That's a lot of stuff to cram through that little window ... unless they tossed the aforementioned t-shirts out the window one by one through a kind of bucket brigade of thieves, which would be a killer named for a garage band....

lol typos go= got and done= don't

@John Doe...You seem to have come into this a little late. The state workers have always had the choice to join a union. With Act 10 they have lost worker's rights. Until the contracts were cancelled the work rules were covered in the collective bargaining agreement. The state agencies are supposed to come up with policies and procedures with work place rules. A number of workers are still waiting.

The budget could have been closed without busting the unions. The main problem was with he teacher's union and not other public employees unions. If you remember, Doyle had all state employees furloughed for 16 days without pay. The state employees didn't oppose it and were prepared to take cuts under Walker. Of the $300 million saved from the state workers, it resulted in a $399 million surplus. He overreached and his actions were political to cut off union funding to his political opponents.

@Lyle -

In the absence of formal workplace rules, the following from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989) applies:

"Be excellent to each other!"

If everyone follows this rule, we should have no problems. But leave it to a lefty to throw a monkey wrench into the system and before you know it, we'll have a bureaucracy unlike anything that Terry Gilliam could have imagined, not withstanding Brazil’s (1985) dystopian vision of the future!

@John Doe -

You pretty much got the facts straight!

BTW - Say hi to Jane for me!

Lyle- You keep spewing the same crap over and over and it simply isn't true. Act 10 saved thousands of public workers jobs. General work rules are covered under federal law. They did not lose collective bargaining rights (as they were NEVER a right), and can still negotiate salary. THE RULE ARE NO DIFFERENT FOR FEDERAL UNION EMPLOYEES, Unions, with Doyle's blessing, over reached and the tide had to be turned to save the state from bankruptcy. These idiots should be thankful they are not among the 35 million unemployed today who would love to have the reamining slaries and perks that these union thugs have. Plain and simple. If you don't think you are making a good living, doing what you do, and can do better in the private sector; THEN QUIT!!! You all aren't worth as much as you think you are and no one has a right to dictate to their employee the terms of their employment without all parties at the table.

@Brian Dey...You have no idea what your talking about. The state public employees don't have specific work rules until the policy and procedures manuals are written and in place. You have no idea what the working conditions are in the various agencies. Your experience has been at the local level.State workers have been left with nothing but their jobs. There is no indication that layoffs were the only other option.

Lyle- Again, you know nothing of which you speak about. EVERYONE is covered under federal employment law. There is absolutely no difference if you are a public or private sector employee. As far as policy and procedures, what I have seen at the local level applies at the state. Everyone had policy and procedures in place and negotiated through contracts. To date, I have not heard of one instance, statewide, where those policies and procedures have been drastically changed under Act 10. Zip, nil, zilch, nada. There is absolute documentation of last years local, school, and state budgets that had REAL budgetary shortfalls. Since 80% or higher of tax revenue was paying employee salaries and benefits, where was the money going to come from? I have asked you this time and time again and you choose to ignore it. Well Gov. Walker did not have that option. The law says he has to balance the budget, PERIOD! You r boy Doyle pilfered everything else instead of facing the problem like a GOOD Governor SHOULD do. He wanted to belly up to the union trough, and when he couldn't, he bailed. Same reason feingold won't run, cuz he's got nothing to offer the unions. UNIONS have contributed more money to political campaigns (Dems) than all the corporations combined two-fold. It's okay, because I think we are finally witnessing the beginning of the end of unions and the Democratic Party. Please, keep doing what you're doing.

@Brian Dey...I didn't say that public employees aren't covered under Federal Employment Laws. I am saying that we are without P&P manuals and direction that was previously covered by bargaining agreements. The abuses will start to come forward and then your evidence will be there. Keep fighting the good fight.

Brian- I wish you were still on the school board, i can understand why you ran screaming. Your common sense views probably didn't mix well. Looking forward to reading your comments on here in the future! Scott Walker is protecting us from the public employee unions and if RUSD had used the tools we would be in better shape. It's never easy to look in the mirror and say "Yes, I do need to pay my fair share of benefits and I'm lucky to have a job" The anger for Scott Walker is so high because he does what he says and has a pair of steel balls. I cant wait to vote for him again.

And the sentence you'll draw when you do. But for once we'll have an example of real election fraud, not the fake version used by the GOP to justify voter suppression.

Well Nate, just what do you plan on doing with those signatures? Burning them? Shredding them? Or following the law and turning them over to the petition organizers? Is it worth $10,000 and/or four years in prison to satisfy your curiosity?

Nat & Jimmy both going to the slamer. I’m never sharing confidential materials with you ever again!
Don't forget your soap on a rope !

@HRG -

You were supposed to keep that info top secret! Man, I’m never sharing confidential materials with you ever again!

For the record, many Republicans oppose Walker as well. Most Republicans aren't "Yee-haw Tea Party" zealots. Most Republicans do believe in limited government, and the Walker administration has gone to the opposite extreme, WAY overstepping the boundaries. Wisconsin can do better than this.

Stop with the tea party BS. They make up a small part of the conservative/libertarian side. For some reason the left needs a boogeyman and they have it in TP and Koch. So every time they want to make a point they end it either with TP or Koch. Or in absence of having a point to make they bring up TP or Koch. I could care less about the TP or Koch. I want to keep Walker in office because he's fixing the structural financial issues we have in this state. He's getting the compensation package issue fixed with the state workers. Bottom line: if you vote to recall Walker you are voting to put yourself and your children into debt so that a small segment of our population can be taken care of for life. And you are threatening the business friendly environment that is finally being fostered in this state. Hint: if the left has it's way the only jobs left in Wisconsin will be in government and tourism. That's not a sustainable economic model.

@235301...You are only a prophet of gloom and doom to justify your "pocket book morality". If we are such a business freindly environment, why aren't businesses busting the doors down to get here? Why did we lose over 9000 jobs last month? As a matter of fact most states added jobs. National unemployment dropped to 9%. This is just not working.

Wake me up when we don't have a whole Republican party bought and paid for by Big Corporations and the Koch Brothers in particular.......or a SCOTUS that isn't owned by them as well. Citizens United was one of the worst decisions in HISTORY and will impact our elections for decades.........unless we can amend the decision. VOTE TO AMEND!

Markus - once again, a liberal devoid of any information has to reduce his position to name calling. Fail.

Ima Hippee -- a reactionary fascist devoid of any information has to reduce his position to name calling. Fail.

To Ima Hippee - Man you give hippees a bad name! Scott Walker is INDEED an abysmal liar and he lied all throughout his campaign and he's lying now - he told Fox News that the bill they passed "allows workers to choose to be a member of a union or not" OUT AND OUT LIE! They already HAD that right and his bill kept them from collective bargaining. There isn't enough room to post ALL this creep's lies.

The repair bill is working just fine--of the 9,700 job losses last month, only 400 were public sector jobs...

Thanks Thurston! Great info. Just not good news again for Wisconsin workers!

To Cow Dung......that's one of the most foolish responses here. The LOSS of a JOB is another person OUT OF WORK! What is it about that you don't understand?

I didn't think my comment was that hard to understand, but perhaps a translation is in order then--without Walker's budget repair bill, we'd be looking at much larger unemployment numbers in the public sector. The fact that only 400 jobs were lost instead of thousands of jobs is a good thing, isn't it?

No, CD, it's not working.

I thought I'd already read the dumbest post here, but this one tops them all! I hate to tell you this, but government employees serve the people of each state and the whole country (federal)....without them, we would have no military, no oversite for airlines, no air controllers, no Dept of Health, Labor Department, Social Services (like it or not Repukes - this IS an important dept. for the disabled and elderly especially) Clean air and Water, National Parks, public water service - the list is endless. We need a BALANCE of both private AND public. If you think private industry gives a flying fig about ANY of us, guess again. I can count on one hand the private companies that care about ANYTHING other than their HUGE profits. Of the Fortune 500 companies, almost 50 paid absolutely NOTHING in taxes to the U.S.in 2010, while making the biggest profits in history. All while creating not one SINGLE job in America. Look in a mirror and take a picture of yourself, with the title - "needs to learn how the country operates" before posting another like your last - WOW!

I do more than type. I also take photographs. See here: http://flic.kr/ps/24HuuQ

All true!

All publicity is good publicity and free publicity is even better.

Good thing we can see right through the dirty tricks, fraudulent tactics, and false DPW stories!

WOW! Finally a voice of reason and no hysterical screaming, so common in the liberal establishment.

If you don't like it here, why don't you take YOUR bias and go to David Horowitz's blog? I'm sure you'll feel quite comfortable among the Reicht wing bloggers there. If you wrote an "opinion" column, dare we say that it was probably your own "biased" one? Obviously this is not where you feel comfortable.

@Lyle -

Of course it works both ways - but this Zielinski character is just all kinds of shady. He's constantly throwing out press releases, unlike the seldom heard from RPW. Coincidence? Who knows, maybe the RPW just employs quieter tactics.

In any case, I hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday!

Cheers!

Lyle- Two points; 1. Thank you for the compliment. 2. Thanks for the 2nd compliment as your ideas of successful politicians are Doyle, Barrett and Obama. I'll stand on my record as a successful school board member who stopped corruption and ousted a failed superintendent and corrupt financial consultant. What have you done Lyle???
Crickets...

If the Democratic party in WI wants to start regaining some credibility the first act would be dismissing Zielinski. He is slimy and an idiot. He is their public face. I am floored that they didn't dismiss this turd long, long ago.

@235301...This is a problem when all you have is a two party system. This precisely why I refuse to tie myself to a single political party. I have chosen social democracy which more closely represents my perspective.

There is enough sleaze to go around and both parties are infected with it. As you know I am a lefty's lefty. I don't tolerate the underhandedness being displayed. Too many "yellow dog Democrats" and "knee jerk Republican". What I say is chose the issues, chose the individual and reject the party.

Okay, what's your constructive comment?

@Rees Roberts...Bob McBride and I are on the opposite sides of the fence, but I have to agree with him. I have the deepest respect for him, James R Hoffa, Brian Dey, Keith Best (an executive for the Waukesha Republican Party) and a few others. Although there is a great divide between us, our going back and forth in discussion helps to define and strengthen both sides of the argument. We have a basic difference in world view and if anyone follows our exchanges, they will benefit by increasing their levels of awareness. What seems to be trivial to you is very much needed in this polarized environment. Therefore, make a decision if your going to participate and provide your opinions. They will be thoroughly vetted and you'll grow from the process.

Lest you forget "We can agree to disagree".

Yes, it was to encourage you to go beyond calling everyone else here on their less than constructive comments (as you see them) and add one of your own as it relates to the topic at hand. Being a comments section scold without actually bothering to address the topic at hand isn't constructive.

Do you have anything to add, pertinent to the topic at hand?

Rees,

Here's the problem as I see it as it relates to "the bickering".

I can make an argument, and have, numerous times, that there is absolutely nothing Scott Walker has done that can't be reversed by persons elected into office at regularly scheduled elections in the future. This has sufficed and, in fact, has been SOP for as long as I can remember and, from what I'm able to gather, much further back than that.

There have been elected officials in the past (and who currently hold office) who have made bold moves no more earth-shattering than the modifications to the collective bargaining agreement made by Walker. The same goes as regards them not having stated, specifically, all the means to the end that they engaged in while in office. If you need examples, I can call them up for you.

But back to what you call the bickering and why it will remain. It's simple. You have two very disparate opinions here, based on different values and priorities.

You have those who view collective bargaining rights as a near sacred trust and you have those for whom they're nothing more than a part of a complex whole that needs to be modified to bring it up to date to reflect current economic conditions. You have those who feel that violating that near sacred trust is an offense so great it warrants extreme actions such as recall, and you have those who see recall for a policy issue as ludicrous. Bringing those two sides, together, frankly is impossible.

I can tell you that no one on my side of the chasm feels the various recalls are justified. And it's pretty obvious that for those on your side, allowing Scott Walker and the other targets of recall to stay in office to the completion of their terms is not acceptable.

Given that, there is no common ground and the chasm is too large to bridge. Hence, the endless, repetitious "bickering".

"Join the union or you can't work here." - Is that really what people think is truly American?
Fair share extortion and then having to go through red tape (in a limited short window of time) to prevent it from going to ideology you disagree with - Is that American?
Just because an organization has been in place for over 50 years, does that mean that it will automatically be doing the right thing for workers? 21 years working within and around a union and I saw continual decline and abuse of what they called "the right thing". I couldn't believe it when I saw people jumping up and down as they voted for "FAIR SHARE, FAIR SHARE!" which meant that regardless as to if I thought the union was doing the right thing or not, I still had to pay very close to the same amount of money union members had to JUST TO CONTINUE TO WORK at my job.
FREEDOM FROM EXTORTION - This is my America
FREEDOM TO SUPPORT THOSE WITH MY IDEOLOGIES - This is my America
FREEDOM TO WORK WHERE I WANT TO AND NOT HAVE TO PAY TO DO SO (can anyone say MAFIA?) - This is my America and forcing someone to pay to work is not democratic.
I have no problem if anyone wants to join and belong to a union but when it becomes a form of extortion with a political agenda - just if only for the sake of honesty, changing that which I personally consider a crime is a positive thing and there's too much dishonesty in MY America.

Bob:

Thanks for sharing your views. I would like to focus on a couple specifics. While you make a totally valid comment that previously when one side or the other has "issues" they can be handled in the next election. I totally get that. However, when someone does something like drop a bomb when no notice is given that is something totally different, and I believe most folks would agree with that. I believe that is what is at the heart of the recall of Walker. Had he had just been upfront about his intentions and he still got elected no one could have said a word.

HOWEVER, that was not what occurred here. He got elected based on pre-election statements which did NOT include working to end bargaining rights. That just did not happen. So, while you may agree with what he did, in all fairness, that was totally out of line with any sense of fairness. And Americans, when you come down to it, want fairness.

This bickering, as I call it, which you have stated is uncompromising and will never end has the same look and feel for what ultimately ended up being the Civil War. Two factions which could not agree and it ended up being a very deadly war. We need to strive for consensus. We need to figure out how we can work together without huge power plays which only divide us. By stating we can not ever come together is a HUGE statement. And a dangerous one. Think of the ramifications. Is this what you want? I certainly do not.

Rees:

If this recall is really about Walker 'dropping the bomb' and doing something that he didn't spell out specifically during his campaign, then why are all the republican senators facing recall as well? Are you accusing them of violating their campaign promises as well?

It seems obvious to me that the recalls are just a ploy by the minority party to get back into power. The dems can't accept the fact that they lost last November, so now they are trying for a re-do...

Rees- Collective bargaining is NOT a right? Never has been, never will be. As a former member of a school board, they were NOT willing to make concessions (we've been asking for years...). I know that as FACT, first hand from bargaining with the 6 associated public unions for 2 contracts. Wisconsin state public employees still have more collective bargaining privleges than federal workers. There is NO way that this could have been done without restricting negotiations. And if you were blindsided, you weren't paying attention because he clearly stated that the rules of collective bargaining would have to change (and that is all he did).

You have bought into the lies, and they are. Do you think it's American to force someone into a union (whether they want to or not), take money from them in the form of dues (whether they want thme to or not), and have those dues fund (more like bribe) the Democratic party, who has stopped long ago representing the 85% of America that aren't in unions? Really, is that your vision of America?

Any my God, really, you guys are still playoing on that Koch Brothers mantra? Are they somehow the "Oz" of the Republican party? You all are lemmings, trthfully. I have not heard one independent thought on either side. Both sides are speaking only rhetoric. That is what has divided this country.

All I know is financially, Wisconsin is just fine, and if you can't see that, than you truly are blind.

Rees,

I think you have to go back to the way each side views the collective bargaining agreement to understand why there is no common ground. Your belief that it amounts to dropping a bomb is not universally accepted. It's not a matter of what you and I want. The decision to address this via recall effectively eliminated any chance for compromise.

@brian Dey...One of the things that you seem to want to ignore is that when this direction the state is currently taking will be overturned, either now or later. When public workers have their collective bargaining reinstated, we will put it into the state constitution and then it will be a right.

As far as you experience with negotiating with unions while you were on the school board, all I can say is that the board had the power but decided not to use it. You know very well public employees do not have the right to take job actions. You could have pushed them, but you and your fellow board members choose not to. If it takes the state to remove the bargaining rights for you to do your elected reponsibilities, then you probably shouldn't have been elected in the first place.

To answer an earlier question; my public service was as a volunteer. It included the civil rights movement, counseling deserters, president of boards for non-profit charities and positions of state chair for AIPAC in :Utah. I currently teach in a private school; eithics, history and morality. I don't play "pocket book morality" like you and your side does. Your position has real human consequences, which you refuse to take responsibility.

Guys, I appreciate the civil dialog.

CowDung, The legislature made the laws. Walker urged them to do so. Without recalling the republicans who voted for repealing of collective bargaining would prevent other harsh bills turning into law. We apparently do not have the right, as States like California does, to request a referendum on laws. So, the only other alternative is to recall the people who passed it.

Brian Dey,

When the State provided for collective bargaining through law, it WAS a right. The State gave that right to the people and only recently took it away. So, currently, you are correct. But never the less a 50 year history has been taken away without notice. That kind of power by either or any party is extremely dangerous.

Bob McBride,

Of course collective bargaining is not universally accepted NOW. But for over 50 years it was. That should be taken into account. Now that a recall is in progress, to blame the democrats for a lack of compromise is unfair. Why? Because which party created the issue? I promise you the Democrats did not. They fought tooth and nail to prevent it from happening. Yet, you now blame the Democrats for any chance of compromise. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE of the bickering I was talking about. This is precisely what needs to stop. To call responsibility in the most absurd way is not going to improve any dialog. And if it continues how do you propose that it helps anything? How do you believe anyone will see your credibility? I will always stand up for your right for your opinion. But geez Bob don't call out the victims as reasons for a lack of dialog to gain compromise.

Rees,

Once again, I go back to the origins of the collective bargaining process as it relates to Wisconsin Public Employees. Granted by politicians, and able to be modified by politicians. The normal election cycle can correct any decisions and changes that occur, should those decisions and changes be the incorrect ones. That's the way we've done things for years. Your side, Rees, has decided that that's no longer the way you wish to do things. You can't wait for the normal election cycle, you want things changed back now, and you're taking the actions to do so. You've created the condition of no compromise with the decision to take these actions. We are not obligated to bend over backwards to "come together" with you when you've essentially said the only acceptable outcome to you is for people we elected to be removed from office via special election and for you to get your way. What's left to "come together" over once you've done that?

This discussion has gone exactly the way I predicted it would. There is no coming together because the only way to come together with you is for me to compromise my principles and accept the legitimacy of the recalls your side has initiated. I am unwilling and unable to do so.

Fair share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J49Orx9ORI4

Sally reminds me of the public unions. All the way around.

Those weren't "rights" that were mowed down my friend, they were privileges. There is a huge difference. And for the record I don't even know who the Koch brothers are but you government union thugs are OBSESSED with them!

Rees- A law is man made and can be changed, therefore, collective bargaining is not a right. A right is a, dare I say, God given state; such as the right to speak freely, the right of pursuit of happiness, etc...

Lyle- Sometime you need to just Google my name. I have a very clear record of not going along with the crowd while on the board. As a matter of fact, my unwillingness to be a union lackey contributed to my defeat in the elections I lost. I freely took on the union and many times pushed decisions to 5-4 votes where usually they were 9-0 votes. But the contributions to other candidates by the unions heavily influenced board decisions.

And please, don't assume my positions are party related. I've taken on the Republicans as well, and my moral values are just that, my values and have more to do with the way I was raised and my religious beliefs. I have not just been political. I was founder of Just Cause Wisconsin, Co-Chair of Operation Interdependence, have sat on many educational boards, and have spent most of my life volunteering.

Dan, there's a cost associated, in terms of money and general disruption borne by all, associated with your "right" to have a do-over of the last election. I think you'll find that, as much as anything, that's what those of us who don't support the recall object to.

les we forget scotty became county exec of milw. via a recall election.

There is a cost associated with democracy, that's true.

Diane, let's test your last statement there. Who are we competing with most directly in the world market and how do their "labor rights" compare with ours?

What world do you live in? It is the cost of the union involvement that keeps prices at such high rates that they have a hard time even being competitive in THIS country, let alone those who live in the world without the freedoms we do. All one has to do is to look at the U.S. auto industry and compare with other countries such as Japan to see why they ended up having to be bailed out... take a look at the cost differences of unionized workers benefits vs non unionized and tell me again that stripping away of this imbalance results in us not being competitive... just the opposite would happen.
Add to the higher costs of labor the production slowdowns the labor unions brought into the manufacturing environment and you'll now see THE TRUTH of why there is a lack of ability to compete. Personally, I don't like our government owning anything of such value to this country but apparently they feel they were doing the right thing with OUR money. I disagree and feel abused and see again unions are draining this country's assets. I'd say we are finally making some progress in the right direction but perhaps the word "we" might depend on which world we reside in, the real world or one we wish were true.

@Rees Roberts....Compromise ends when one or the other parties decides that their position is intractable and refuses to compromise; this is what is commonly referred to as the "nuclear option". When Governor Walker and the Republican legislature decided to not negotiate a compromise then they exercised the "nuclear option" sensing that they could finally permanently cripple the political opposition.

To restore the conditions to where compromise will be possible recalls must be held to find the true will of the electorate. If the governor wins and the senate remains in Republican control, then we who oppose the situation will have to accept the will of the people and work to change the electorate's minds. This is a critical juncture in our state and cannot be treated lightly. The back and forth allows people to examine the issues and arguments and then decide what's right.

Rees, maybe this will help you understand.

What Lyle refers to as the nuclear option, I see as part of the process of addressing issues related to the cost of government in this state. What Lyle sees as an action to restore conditions to where compromise is possible, I see as the "nuclear option" taken by those who refuse to accept the results of the last election - one that caught them on off guard in terms of assuming that 2008 elections were some sort of permanent referendum on the viability of the Republican Party.

Both of us can argue our points rather well. Both of us are pretty much intractable as regards those specific points. In essence, it becomes the chicken and the egg argument, and the plan of action currently in place, regardless of what you think of it, negates the ability to even discuss much in the way of compromise until it reaches its conclusion. I'm not even going to go out on a limb like Lyle has here and attempt to predict acceptance on the part of either side of the results of said action. I don't believe, like Lyle apparently does, that if Walker and the Republicans persevere, that the his side is going to accept the loss as the will of the people. Rather, I believe that regardless of which side wins, there will be further accusations of bought elections, corruption, vote tampering, etc on the part of the losing side. Compromise is something far off in the distance, beyond the ability of anyone to realistically see at this point.

@Lyle... You said... 'If the governor wins and the senate remains in Republican control, then we who oppose the situation will have to accept the will of the people and work to change the electorate's minds'.

To me, 'working to change the electorate's minds', if the recall fails, does not sound like 'accepting the will of the people', or any form of compromise, for that matter- either;intractable;bongo beating;mulligan the sequel, part 13.

@Jay Sykes...Thanks for pointing out my message's lack of clarity. What I meant to say is that we must accept the election. If we want to again take office then we must convince the electorate that the left can do a better job.

@Hudson Resident...I don't support Obamacare. It is a cobbled together monstrousity. We need universal healthcare, plain and simple. By the way, when you pump gas into your car or wipe your butt, you're supporting Koch Industries. I think you would like them, they are extreme libertarians. Happy Thanksgiving.

Lyle,

You might also wish to add that if anyone wishes to boycott Koch Industries by not utilizing products they produce, selecting the second one you mention may produce some unintended and objectionable consequences.

Bob,
That person can do what the dog does, drag their butt across the lawn. Something about expressing some gland, blah blah blah.

Say What?, perhaps that's what she was singing about here. Never made the connection before. Pay close attention to the very beginning of the song....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVcUzP_O_8

Bob,
I dont think that was what she was going for, although I dont think it would stop a dog from butt dragging to the tune.

Thanks, Brian. Same to you as well.

correction... yet in most countries of this world we both live in, there is no right to speak FREELY.

@Rees Roberts...There is a lot of confusion over what is a right and what isn't. There are two types of rights. The first is inalienable rights, those that are ours for being human beings. Alienable rights are the rights that are bestowed through social contract between people. Our constitution is based on inalienable rights but outline alienable rights. The alienable rights flow from the inalienable rights. All 27 amendments are alienable and can be changed by changing the social contract. What the collective bargaining rights were is statutory rights. They don't flow out of either inalienable or alienable rights. Thus, they can be changed simply by a change in legislation. I know it probably seems I am splitting hairs, but they are significant. If we reintroduce full collective bargaining rights to the public employees in Wisconsin, then we should probably put them into the constitution and make them alienable and not so difficult to change.

Rees- We were all born with the right of free thinking and free will. Those other countries you talk about suppress that right. We weren't born with a union card, therefore it is not a right. That's just my 2 cents. Enjoy your Thanksgiving!!!

Same to you, Rees. Have an enjoyable and safe (if you're traveling) day!

This is exactly the type of comment I was referring to above. Donna, do you really believe someone actually gets up in the morning to plot how to devastate other human beings? Let's be reasonable. I am not a republican either. But this kind of talk on incites bitter replies which gets us no where.

Happy Thanksgiving.

And I thought I was the hate monger on this site. Nice job Donna!

I think the story of petitions being destroyed rather speaks for itself. If this is not a concerted effort by republicans to subvert a legal process,please illuminate. This is not hate,this is stating facts. If you support this sort of cheating and think the people of Wisconsin have no right to choose their governor that is your right. For me,I will call them as I see them. Sometimes the truth hurts,I guess. After the spectacle of a politically tainted supreme court hand the highest office of the land to GWB after voting irregularities I guess I have little patience with republicans having fun with other peoples right to a vote. And I thought this was a thread about dirty politics, not a hallmark card competition. Can stand the heat, maybe this isn't the site for you.

@Leah Lehman...Walker and company hasn't taken on the unions that you have stated. I don't think he will move to bust the police and fire fighters. They supported him in the last election. Besides, he may need a strong police presence sometime in the future.

There isn't any doubt that he will attempt to privatize as much of public services as possible. That has been in his game plan all along. He will have a more difficult time now that people are aware of his game and everybody will be watching him and the legislature closely.

The police/fire unions do still have their collective bargaining rights, but locally they are also being asked to take an insurance policy that would increase their deductible from $250 to $6,000, pay 15 percent of the premium, and pay 5.8 percent of their wages into their pensions. The Village budget was actually "passed," but they started negotiating with two of the three police/fire unions after it was passed. The police/fire budgets make up about 60 percent of the Village budget. The second police union, the ones who have the sergeants aren't being recognized by the Village Board. So essentially, the Village Board, while they still have their collective bargaining rights, are still being asked to give concessions just like the rest of the village's public employees. There's only one kicker on this... the police and fire unions have collectively save taxpayers $1.8 million since 2009. Essentially, Walker just made the Village Board make the cuts to a group who -- at least in Caledonia -- have already been working with the VB to make cuts.

http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/how-well-does-the-union-work-with-the-village#video-4973250
http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/here-s-your-caledonia-village-budget-but-there-are-some-huge-asterisks

And... it's ironic that when I cover the Village budgets -- the only people who show up besides me are the people on the payroll.

@Brian Dey...You appear to be getting angrier every time I check this post. What is the quote attributed to your messiah; "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Chill out!

Nothing I said is untrue. Wasn't even said in anger. When uninformed people speak of that they know nothing about in such a vehement fashion, I just like to call them out.

@Brian Dey...Good luck, don't shoot yourself or any libs.

@Rich...Don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

No doubt they really appreciated having to compile a bunch of pointless paperwork based on your report, Victor.

You sure are silly and wrong!! "By 2014 everyone in the world will be entitled to free health care, in the United States, under obamacare"

mau -go educate yourself before you post again and look stupid again.

@Morninmist Same, it sure doesn't take much to rattle your cage.

Guess you didn't hear all the excited libs, when obama was elected, screeching that they would get free health care, free housing, wouldn't have to work, yadda, yadda, yadda. And who is looking stupid, Someone who reacts like you do. You better do some reading yourself. There were special deals made for certain companies and unions, who would not have to join the obamacare pool. And with this president, how is this health care not going to cover illegal immigrants. This from a president who doesn't want any immigrants checked for their legality. And how is someone who has no money going to be forced to pay premiums for insurance? So is everyone who doesn't have the money to pay or refuses to pay, going to get thrown in prison?

So maybe I look stupid, but I caught a sucker.

Sue- I wasn't self-proclaimed, I was elected. Second, I wasn't voted out; I chose not to run for a second term. And yes, I have a lot of contempt for RUSD, who has a school board that was bought and paid for by the teachers union and SEIU. That wasn't always the case. I've seen a district, union, administration and school board guide a district to one of the worst districts in every single category. I saw a district that had a scandalous superintendent and finacial team that diverted money for the classrooms into their own pockets, only to get hefty payouts by the board when I and another board member exposed it. I listened to my constituents as they lost all faith in a school system that delivered the lowest graduation rate in the state, one of the highest drop-out and truancy rates in the state. I saw adistrict who spent millions on tex books, yet our high school students have no books to take home. I've seen them spend millions on expanding employment and a new central office building while crying that there was no money to replace pre-civil war buildings. And with Act 10, I teachers worried more about their own bottomline while only graduating 70% of their students. That is what you should be shocked about, I know I am. I'll stand on my record anytime and google my name with RUSD and you will see why I have no sympathy for RUSD teachers, administrators or current school board members.

Hey Tosa Moderate.
Name calling is not a good character trait to have TosaModerate.

Cheers

Saint Walker, ha ha. Thanks ;)