Last I checked, the bible is against the tax collector, so, the Pastor's stance is hypocritical. Taking the side of the unions will surely mean more taxes....So misguided.....

Wow, "the bible is against the tax collector?" What a trivialization of my mighty God's religion. At least have the courtesy and respect to capitalize "Bible" next time.

@Paris P...You had better go back to the Cristian Bible and reread Matthew 22:21, "Render unto to Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto G-d the things that are G-d's". I am a Jew and this isn't even in my Bible, but I know this scripture. Time for you to go to church and get a morality injection.

Ms. Oberbeck, please explain to me what is undemocratic about a duly elected governor and a duly elected legislature legislating in a way that changes, in one session, an unconscionable deficit amassed by the previous regime into a budget surplus, while at the same time preserving public sector jobs, helping school districts to balance their budgets, and doing that without any help from the opposition party, whose senators left their posts in a petulant hissy-fit.

@Dicks Deli...The problem is that Scott Walker was elected without transparency. If he had been elected with the electorate having full knowledge of his means of implementation, then he probably wouldn't have been elected. With the backing of an insurmountably majority in both chambers of the legislature and a Supreme Court firmly in conservative control, he picked the lower hanging fruit. There was no intent in shared sacrifice and he and the Republicans targeted long political enemies, directing pent up vengeance to pay back long simmering self perceived injustices and powerlessness. There were many means to achieve a balanced budget, but the governor's choice was the most egregious of all possibilities. This is politics, pure and simple, thinly disguised as beneficial actions for the good of the state. He even admitted. under oath, that his actions against the public unions was not necessary for closing the budget deficit. If you look at the biennial savings, it amounted to $300 million. exactly the first projected surplus, which has quickly evaporated. Now the governor has found that he was still $770 million short. The $300 million surplus from state workers, $500 million from cuts to Badger Care and $174 million in further cuts to the UW System. All so he doesn't have to increase revenues through taxation. He is following a fool's path to destruction.

WRONG!!! He fully disclosed in interviews that collective bargaining was on the table. Hell, Belling even dedicated entire shows to how scared the Unions were of Walker. He was totally transparent!

Well said Dicks Deli. That's it in a nutshell.

@Paris P...How many listen to Mark Belling. He has a very small niche market of extreme right wing listeners. If you heard it on Belling, then it puts you at the extreme right who are committed to death of liberalism, freedom and justice. It has been independently verified that he never openly advocated the curtailment of collective bargaining. Please reevaluate and join the mainstream.

that was just an example, which by the way is the number one listend to talk show in the Midwest! Walker also gavemany interviews which he discussed collective bargaining. As County Exec he was always going toe to toe with the Unions. SO, playing ignorant is just a tactic to have an excuse to overturn a Duly elected Republican GOvernor. It's about power, pure and simple! Walker is traking it away from the Unions and they are pissed! They want their power back so they can continue to gouge the taxpayer under the guise of "workers Rights", which by the way, they care nothing about!

By the way....the reforms are working around the state. Says a lot about the stranglehold the unions had on the taxpayer for decades! Unions are NOT 'mainstream" they are becoming extinct and that's a good thing!

@Paris P...I'll take your word for it that Belling is the most listened to talk show in the Midwest, but that still doesn't mean that the general public listens to him. I listen to him, Sykes and Wagner to see what the right is up to, but I am an exception. You can't necessarily make the the connection that what occurred while CE that it would lead to busting the unions. You need to step back and examine your logic and suppostitions.

@Paris P...It's to early to claim the reforms are working. I don't think enough time has passed to truly evaluate the full inpact, positive and negative. What you claim is called jumping to conclusions.

@ParisP...Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

@ParisP...

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

@ParisP..."Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.
Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

To those on here that think Gov. Walker should not be recalled and that Liberals only want to destroy this country with their socialist, regulating, anti-capitalism, you should reevaluate the wonderful things in your life that are the result of progressive movements. Unions are not the devil. Read a history book and learn about working conditions during the industrial revolution. Balancing government power and private influence is a delicate dance. Walker is irresponsible with his choices and is moving Wisconsin too far from the middle.

I drink the water, breathe the same air and drive a car like everyone else. But, I pay 100 % of my scripts, my vacations are not paid, I don't have summer's off, i pay 100% of my health insurance and iI didn't get a subsidized home loan. I'm proud of my life and accomplishments through my hard work. What's wrong with that? So no I don't thank a union for what I've earned. Instead they frustrate me because when they have it good they still complain.

Peg: the dirty little secret is that many of those are paid to post. The other side has now got unchecked amounts of cash flowing in from everywhere (thanks to their supreme court ruling corps are people). They pay people to post on these sites. Keep that in mind.

@donna c...I wouldn't be so confident that there are currently paid trolls on these threads. Why would they pay someone to post when there are so many intelligent and well versed supporters who are already carrying their message. If you follow the posts and threads you'll find the regulars and you'll see excellent arguments going in both directions. I am a lefty and I am a regular and I don't see any conservative trolls at this time.

Please link me to the video, audio or article where Walker "fully disclosed in interviews that collective bargaining was on the table," Paris. I'm waiting...

@Lyle Ruble--point taken.

@greensheet...Now whose being a "friggin cry baby"? As a retired entrepreneur, that is part of the price paid for pursuing your own opportunities. So quit 'bitchin' and get on with your life.

Were teachers not getting the Summer off when you were a kid? They deserved it then but not now? It's all about choices. You chose one profession and they another. Sorry, but it appears you're the one crying over spilled milk. Perhaps this good pastor can tell you about envy.

As I indicated previously, "Many who do not agree will only respond with hateful personal comments against you rather then offer intelligent thoughts and discussion. That behavior is not what our country is about."

Hey greensheet and Lyle Ruble: how 'bout curbing the vulgar language?!?

How about a little perspective on those 100 PLUS (capitalized) days a year teachers have off?

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan -- that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 15 children X 180 days = $140,400 per year. Wait a minute -- there's something wrong here!

There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is around $50,000. $50,000/180 days =$277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!

Everyone that has weekends off (52 x 2) has 100 days off per year. Teachers also have eight weeks in the summer. It's nice, but to me, not worth being a teacher. If it looks that good to you, go teach. Do what they do. What's stopping you if it's such a gravy job?

@greensheet...You must be part of that distinct group.

What is your problem with teachers having summer off? If it's so wonderful, why not be a teacher? I don't chose to because it's a tough job and to me, it's a calling. Not everyone is good at it. I had a few good teachers along the way and am thankful for them. But it's not for me.

Help me what power did he grap? giving more power ( less tax, less govement less power to who ever is in charge) so the 99% have more power aka cash in your pocket.

You seem to forget, the voters gave that power in a massive wave!!! Your side is ticked because the gravy train is over......Time for the people on the wagon to get off and help pull the wagon. You seem to forget, every person that works for the public sector is an expense for the private sector....if you haven't noticed, the private sector has been deteroriating for a few years and there have been significant cutbacks. As such, the govt gets less revenue to contue to pay said public employees cushy beneies.

@greg...With the complicity of the state legislature he has grabbed unprecedented power for the executive branch. He has turned civil service positions into political position appointed by the governor such as the general councils to the department secretaries. The Secretary of Health has been given power to change healthcare legislation at will with only requiring the Legislative Finance Committee's approval. He has changed the Department of Commerce into a private/public corporation beyond legislative oversight. Finally, his most egregious action is removing or restricting collective bargaining for public employees.In addition, he and the legislature have redistricted in such a way that they have increased the number of safe seats for Republicans in the assembly, senate and the Congressional districts.

Lyle, you weren't complaining ten years ago when the DEmocrats controlled redistricting in their favor. It happens to be the law to redistrict every census. So, stop acting like the Democrats are so holy and have never done that. Also, I am certain you were not recalling Doyle during his and the Democrats "Unprecidented poweer grab".....the VOTERS gave Walker a majority, it was obvious that it was not to maintain the status Quo.

@Paris P....Let me give you a small lesson in basic service economics. The only difference between purchasing services privately or publicly is that private purchase is made independently by the individual and publicly purchased services are purchased by all for the use by all. If public provided services would be paid for on an individual use basis, no one except the most wealthy could afford it.

Many of the services provided publicly requires highly skilled, trained and licensed personnel. Just as in private industry, high skill levels must have compensation equal to the requirements of the position and responsibility. For example, how much would it cost you to privately purchase police protection or fire protection? Taxes paying for those services are actually quite reasonable. What has happened in many state government agencies is that they were already stretched during the Doyle administration, but now with the retirements, etc; they are stretched even further to the point where service delivery will invariably suffer. If services begin to suffer then the whole population loses.

@Paris P....You better check who was in control ten years ago. Thar redistricting had to be arbitrated through the courts just as had the previous six decades. Also, you had a Republican governor at the time. Get your facts straight. As far as recalling Doyle, I didn't understand or even know about the system then. Did you?

@3393...What moral line has he crossed? I don't see how he's being greedy. He's not the one who is practicing "pocket book morality".

@Lyle ....not surprised you need to ask me that "crossing the moral line" question. It's not a wonder you can't figure it out.

@3393...Who's morality is he violating? What moral principle is he in violation of?

@Dicks Deli...How has Pastor Johnson violated the two moral imperatives that you have cited? He has not personally attacked the governor or his family. He has stated his opposition to the Walker policies and administration. He has opened his property as a place to sigm recall petitions. What has he done that is either unethical or immoral?

greg: continuing your train of thought.....not to mention making death threats that are pooh-poohed by Madison police and Dane County prosecutor and ignored by the so-called mainstream media.

@greg...What's your point? If officials, including clergy take political positions and preaching politics from the pulpit, that organization risks losing their tax exempt status. As a private citizen, clergy can advocate political position all day long; it is their personal position and not that of the organization.

Greg, nobody went to Walker's home and yelled anything from the sidewalk. They went to his neighbors' homes and signed recall petitions. The ones making disruptive noises that night were Walker supporters.

When has anyone yelled at Walker's wife and kids at the store? Or are you just making stuff up?

@cog....totally understand why you haven't heard how the Waker family IS being harassed. You can thank the liberal media and their lack of journalism for that.

Nice try about not going to the Walker home. Come on Cog.... Be honest here....Pastor set up shop as Walker's neighbor. please don't insult our intelligence with that nonsense.

Mr. Ruble, I believe the ELCA, in which Gary Johnson was a pastor, forbids its ordained clergy to actively participate in partisan politics, and it doesn't get much more partisan than this vile Walker witch hunt .

He has, I suppose, escaped this proscription by retiring, and is as you assert a "private citizen". I suggest therefore that he be referred to herein as "Mr. Johnson" rather than "Pr. Johnson".

And by abetting the undisciplined, distasteful and threatening assault on his neighbor's home, spouse and children, one might (although I do not pretend to have the ability to look into another's conscience) question his adherence to the great commandment "Love thy neighbor as thyself..." and the principle "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".

Of course "Pastor set up shop as Walker's neighbor." Didn't I say that? Didn't the article say that? What I said was, "nobody went to Walker's home and yelled anything." Reading comprehension is your friend.

And it must be fun to make up anything you want and blame it on a phantom "liberal media."

A corporation, contributes $10,000 to a campaign. Then 1000 union members donate $10.00 to the opposing campaign. This is an equal amount of money to each campaign. The corporation hopes that the contribution will influence voters. To believe the they way the corporation believes. To get the votes they need to win. While the 1000 union members already are firm in their belief of their candidate they have donated to, or 1000 votes. Split up the unions make it more difficult to collect those contributions. Identify a corporation as a person and allow unlimited unidentified contributions. Pretty easy to see who has just bought the election.

@greg...Why should we as taxpayers pay bribes to business just to have jobs. This type of policy and behavior is only a race to the bottom.

What "great paying jobs here in WI?" Most of those are union jobs, and we've been hemorrhaging those since Reagan.

Didn't you know Walker reports to the Kochs? Why would we stop talking about them? You didn't hear the phone call where he talked about bringing in outside agitators to his boss, David Koch? Do you think he cares what you want? Why defend him?

@3393...That statement is true and it's the middle and working classes that the budget has been balanced on. You have no understanding how the pension fund operates. The contributions by the state to the pension fund is delayed compensation and has always been owned by the employees and managed by a bipartisan trust. We are one of the only states in the nation that has a fully funded pension program. All the workers are receiving in retirement is what they have already paid in. The taxpayer is not paying after the worker retires, they are paying for it. I suggest you sit down with an actuary and discuss it in detail, then you will probably view it differently.

@ Lyle..teachers funding their own pensions at 100 % in Wi is an outright lie.

@Lyle... The retirees are receiving what they 'earned' as part of their compensation package. And they own the retirement fund in its entirety. However the taxpayer paid every dollar that is in the fund. Even with the recent start of the 5.8% employee share, the Wisconsin taxpayer still pays every dollar.

@Jay Sykes...I guess I am missing your point. Of course the state pays the state workers. Once they are compensated does the state still retain the rights to the money or is it like any other wages. As far as the retirement system is concerned it is just like any other compensation that the workers receive but instead of being paid directly to the worker it is paid into a qualified trust managed for the state employee. Once transferred it no longer belongs to the state but the employees.Tommy Thompson found that out the hard way. As far as the state is concerned they are like any other employer that has entered into a lawful employment contract and are subject to all the rules that any other employer is subjected to.

@3383...When I was talking about the retirement fund I was referring to the EFT for state workers. People keep getting public unions confused, they are not all the same.

@Lyle... We are on the same page. I confabulated your comment with another post and directed my comment to you..oops.

You have no clue of what a pension is, which is sad. Get a union job.

I have to fund my own Donna at 100% and I'm not complaining. Sounds like that is smething you know nothing about.

3393--why do you say I know nothing about it? Of course I do. I fund my 401K as well. It's not a pension, however.

I thought your comment was at me

How silly. The union is the epitome of democracy--one person one vote. And the votes are on paper--and actually count! Any union member who does not want their dues going to politics simply opts out. You don't know what you are talking about.

They also can't just decide to take two weeks off for vacation in the fall or to attend a wedding out of state unless it's in the summer.

Not true Donna. One of our teachers just left for a week for a wedding.

And once your union is busted and you are on the same level as a teacher in Mississippi, let's see how much disposable income you have to spend at Walmart. Great policies--let's make sure NO ONE has a good job any more! Yee ha!

Not your friend, and thankfully, don't even know you.

What statement do you consider nuts?

@RicanPrincess....I don't think we determine liberals bad, conservatives good or vice versa over single issues. Liberals and conservatives differ in their world view only. I don't know anyone who is liberal on every issue or conservative on every issue. You can easily be a liberal on social issues and a conservative on fiscal issues. Even Dick Koch is pretty liberal on social issues but an extremest libertarian fiscally. This doesn't present any contradictions.

My objections to the conservative right in the state, at this time, is their blatant power grab and attempting to disenfranchise the power of the left. Rarely is there a condition where there isn't some kind of check and balances and we are in a position where the conservative right has all the marbles and chooses to steam roll their whole agenda, I become very concerned. This is an erosion of freedoms. I would continue to oppose recalling Walker if the left had at least one chamber of the legislature. This would force compromising and the state is healthier when compromise is possible and currently all the power on one side is unhealthy.

Lyle, again, I don't agree. I think this is not first time this has happened where there is a majority with all the power. It was equally unhealthy then, as unhealthy you and others deem it to be now. The people spoke and took the power off by engaging in the election process.

And Lyle, you may not consider this a "lib vs conservative" issue, but I was more responding to Miss Nicole and her speech above about the superiorly good things progressives have accomplished. She makes it sound like all liberals need now is the super-hero cape. ;)

@RicanPrincess...You are correct. This is not the first time that a single party has had this kind of majority. However, in the past, even with single party control, has the party in power overreached as the current party. Part of that overreach has been to fundamentally restructure the state government in such as a manner. If it was all about budget deficits, that could have been accomplished in any number of ways. The actions were all about stripping power away from the opposition and permanently politically handicapping them.

Lyle: total power is their goal, it's a coordinated effort by all Republicans as made painfully obvious when it was proven that ALEC writes their legislation and they come home and shove it down the throats of their constituents. Mitch McConnel's number one goal is to make Obama a one-term president. Not to create jobs. Not to build the economy. Not to lower the deficit. The only reason they suddenly care about the deficit they created is that it will further hurt Obama's attempts to stimulate the economy.

Again, Donna, you are the one who seems to be a troll. You were saying before how there were paid trolls here. I don't think you are paid; you just like to be one. You are speaking half truths, and your obsession with the Koch brothers seems to be extreme. Besides, seems to me Dems are the ones that want to tax the living daylights out of everyone, specially those who should "share their wealth" because it is not fair that some people have so much money. So, yes, I don't need your permission to vote for whoever I please. You want to recall and waste taxpayer money? Go right ahead. I am not telling you not to do it. Likewise, I will vote for whoever I please, thank you very much.

@RicanPrincess...Taxes are a necessary part of our lives. There will always be a debate on the tax levels, who pays and what will be taxed. We have made it too easy for the wealthy to avoid paying taxes and all of the loopholes need to be closed along with raising the tax brackets back to Clinton era levels.

@Lyle. You are right. Those were days of prosperity for all. One third of the deficit is from the bush tax cuts and another third is from the unfunded bush wars.

@donna c....Just to let you know, I as a lefty democratic socialist have moved on past ALEC and the Koch Brothers. I don't care who funds the right wing politicians, they are the ones we have to hold accountable. Go to a town hall meeting and bring up your concerns about ALEC with your assembly person or senator and make it known to them that you find the action deplorable. Make sure you let them know that you would have hoped they would come up with the legislation on their own rather than from a conservative scripted playbook. If they're not skilled enough or smart enough to come up with their own legislative proposals and bills, then they are not smart enough to serve and they should resign.

@Lyle--I do not understand how anyone can justify Texas billionaires buying our governorship. I hope that someone on here gives me their justification for it. If they are not in the one percent, they can have no reason to be OK with it.

@donna c...Koch Industries has a number of business interests in the State. They are profoundly committed to see deregulation occur for their businesses. The Koch Brothers are committed libertarians and have been politically active to overturn environmental regulations throughout the nation. But, they are one of many. In our own backyard is the Bradley Foundation that, in many ways, makes the Koch Brothers look like amateurs. I would suggest that you broaden your concerns about funding issues and look closer to home. Another support group is the Kholers ; Tommy Thompson doesn't make a move without checking with them first.

As early as 2009 talking about changing mediation and Arbitration and healthcare plans. Oh no! you didn't know he was going after unions....Ignorance is not a defense..Disagree all you'd like with Walker, it's your right, but a more likely explaination is that you that are complaining that you didn't know Walker was going after Unions didn't voter for him to begin with!

@Paris P...Those of us who reside in Milwaukee County were fully aware of his shenanigans and the hatred he harbors for unions. However, the rest of the state was completely unaware of who Scott Walker really is. He lost Milwaukee County handledly. I have talked with a number of fellow people in the grassroots movement who are moderate Republicans and Independents who voted for Walker and now have buyers remorse. That's is why they are participating in the current recall efforts.

PROOF THAT REFORMS ARE WORKING!!!

Wrong again. Union members are killed all the time in Columbia and elsewhere around the world. Get a clue.

@Paris--is your belief that workers had to fight and sometimes die for safe workplaces, minimum wages, 40-hour work week and child labor laws in the past, but now the benevolent corporations will just give them to us? And that the union workers dying elsewhere around the world are just not lucky? The same multinational corporations trying to keep them from unionizing are just meanie weenies in South America but good guys here, right?

@Paris P...Provide your proof!

It seems like you're having trouble following. You said "There is NOT a union member alive today that has fought for those things you say I take for granted." And you are wrong. They are fighting (and dying) for it right now in many parts of the world. Do you get it? Yes, strong unions in Germany have made it recession proof and their currency is strong. We are seeing how it works out there. Good point. How do you like dear gov's loss of 19,000 jobs for wisconsin? how's that working for you? And, Wis. is not quite red yet. We're still fighting to save it.

@Paris P...You certainly don't seem to have well rounded knowledge. Northern Europe's unions are effective and help with the company when business is down.

@ Paris....you are correct on all your points. Just thought I would interject that because you are putting up with with some real fruitcakes. Once I heard the Europe crap and union workers are dying stuff from the Walker hater's I had to comment. Your posts are spot on and thanks !

@3393, thanks....I love to see how ignorant these paid posters that work for the Democrat party get. They are line by line
according to the democrat Union handbook

3393, is there a way to private message in this venue?

@Paris P...Rarely have I encountered someone as misinformed as you and cares so little for facts and the truth.

@Paris P...I'm not even a Democrat. I don't know about Donna. BTW I am a social democrat and I do this because I'm interested in politics. I think they call it a "political junkie".