It is sad, but not surprising to see blatant politics coming from the Dane County Judge. This is a logical, fair and reasonable law.

Blatant partisan politics came from Mac Davis in Waukasha Cty!

.........
David Montemurri

3:22 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012

It is sad, but not surprising to see blatant politics coming from the Dane County Judge. This is a logical, fair and reasonable law.

Shades of David Prosser.

The injunction is totally political. Why would any one much less a judge worry about an unconstitutional poll tax. The people who don't have ID's are probably all democrats and don't deserve to vote anyway.

@Ryan; well said & exactly the point. The only reason the ALEC backed teaparty rethugs want voter ID. It has nothing to do with exaggerated voter fraud. Everything to do with suppressing the voter turnout.

6th time in line for a free beer ...

My relatives didn't fight world wars so you could get a Spreacher tour, they did it for the right to vote.

Does the U.S. Constitution guarantee your right to buy spray paint?

:::checking:::

Was that as the result of some local ordinance or merely store policy?

In either instance, didn't you find it annoying to be treated like a potential criminal simply because some other people have been guilty of tagging? And how were they going to trace it back to you if you did write 'Alfred Loves Mary' on a brick wall?

Tagger

Chris, what you are referring to are not Constitutionally-protected rights. (Concerning gun ownership, ID and background check are required for this Constitutionally-protected right but I think we can all accept this because we agree that criminals and the unstable should not have free access to guns).

Can someone of the liberal persuasion please explain to me (without using talking points or union speak) what is so damn wrong with having to prove that you are who you claim to be to participate in one of the most sacred duties an American citizen can do, which is to vote. A right that many great men and women for 200+ years have fought and died for. A right that should not, and cannot be taken for granted. The tenant of "One person, One vote" is part of the background of the republic system. Why are you so against it? Why should you not be able to protect the sanctity of your own vote?

Which amendment says citizens have a right to vote?

@Chris Larsen -- It's the fact that only a photo ID will suffice, and only certain forms of photo ID are valid. Not only must you prove you are who you say you are, you must prove your age and citizenship by showing a birth certificate, even in the case of voters who are already legally registered and have proved this fact legally previously.

@Mau -- The Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Nineteenth Amendments.

A birth certificate is not required if you are already a registered voter. All you needed was to show one of the accepted government issued ID's with a current address. Unless you were a student then you also needed proof that you were registered and currently attending college. For registering all that was required was a current and valid Wisconsin driver's license. There were a total of 12 forms of ID that were acceptable to register.

...and if you work with a group like ACORN, you probably don't even need to exist, much less have to show an ID in order to be registered as a voter.

@Mau -- Once I no longer have a valid Wisconsin driver's license I will have to obtain a state ID, and that requires a birth certificate. What about a woman who has never driven in her life, but has been legally registered for years? The State Photo ID still requires a birth certificate.

You're still searching for that one "woman" who had never driven a day in her life, never obtained a checking account, never bought any alcohol, never had a job, and still can not find her birth certificate?

@Steve, I'm sure there are as many of her as there are of people who vote pretending to be someone else. I never had to show a picture ID to get a job.

I've had to provide a photocopy of my driver's license to my employers.

The Wisconsin department of labor requires that minors provide ID as proof of age to get a work permit.

I have had to provide a copy of my ID to every employer I have ever worked at. This was after getting the job but before a first pay check would be issued. I require this for my employees, basically for their W2 and other things the gov. rapes me on.

@Randy, you need to provide a birth certificate to get the ID. You do not need to provide a birth certificate to register to vote or vote.

You're getting a little complicated now. A Wisconsin DOT-issued driver license is valid, even if driving privileges are revoked or suspended. I can't see why it would be required to bring a birth certificate to give up your driver's license and get a state ID issued instead. You already have a driver's license and that alone proves your birth.

My mother-in-law has never driven a day in her life. She got a state ID several years ago, the first time she couldn't collect her gambling winnings at the casino and bingo.

When I order non-certifiied certificates for genealogical purposes from Lake County Illinois, I have to send them a photo copy of my driver's license every time I submit an order.

Still showing mine so I know my vote is my own.

Memory Loss ...

For the millionth time, one cannot determine that actual fraud has not been occurring. It is nearly impossible to catch someone voting under someone else's name.

The fact that partisan groups are able to register voters is enough to cause me concern--we need some system to make sure that the person claiming to be a registered voter is actually the registered voter...

Thank goodness, it's only Vote ID that is a frivolous waste of money.. Here I thought the millions of dollars to recall Walker and the other Republicans was a frivolous waste of money.

This isn't Virginia.

But tens of millions on recalls isn't. Bren you're disillusion, as usual.

@Bren -

So, I guess that you also support dumping the anti-littering initiatives as being "a frivolous waste of taxpayer money based on infinitesimal incidences" of actual littering taking place within the state.

After all very few prosecutions, so why waste money on programs such as 'Adopt a Highway,' etc., when the lack of prosecutions definitively proves that littering just doesn't happen in Wisconsin.

There's just one thing though - could you please explain for me where exactly all the garbage in the ditch that runs along the road fronting my property comes from on an almost daily basis, as that's a real mystery to me given the revelation that littering just doesn't happen in the state because there's so few prosecutions of it on the books!

Cow, you are pre-supposing a problem. How many extra times could a person vote under someone else's name and address? Where I vote the poll workers check off the name. If I showed up and my name was checked off (which has never happened), a report of some type would be filed, without a doubt. The lack of reports of this type suggests that this type of fraud is not taking place, and I want my vote to count as much as anyone.

Steve, I have expressed the view, based on personal research, that a full Walker term would be more costly to Wisconsin (at several levels), than the recall effort.

3.6 billion dollars Bren. That has been proven to be what liberalism cost the state of Wisconsin.

My brother just passed away. I can go vote for him, I know all the info and I'm sure he won't be walking into the polls to check to see if his name is marked off. But if I don't look like he does, well then no vote. We can do this all day, you've herd all the reasons. 70% of the state agrees with us. You just choose to ignore it as the apparent hate for Walker takes over your sensible thought process.

They guy shows up for veterans and you hate on him.
The guy shows up for the special Olympics and you hate on him

Mr. Hoffa, as I recall, the last time you tried to compare littering to voting I pointed out that littering is not conducted (usually) within a controlled environment.

Steve, what is the $3.6 billion to which you are referring? Some bona fide links that specifically tie that $3.6 billion to "liberalism" would also be appreciated.

A person can vote for every voter registration that they know is available for them to vote under. Yes, when you vote as yourself, your name will be checked off. If you voted under a false registration, that name would be checked off. You can vote over and over again as long as you knew a bunch of names that aren't going to be checked off until you vote under those names.

It's a flawed system--it's pretty easy for a partisan group to register bunches of 'voters' by making up names, using dead people names, or stuff like that. Once the names are on the voter list, it's very difficult to have them removed. Members of that partisan group could then vote under those names with little to no risk of getting caught...

@Bren -

But how do stop the activist college students from voting twice? I knew many in my dorm at UW-Whitewater that would vote twice - once in Whitewater, and once in their hometown. Same day registration and virtually no cross-checking of the rolls allows this to very easily occur and believe me, it happens more than you know. I personally witnessed it and reported it happening to the local police, who were not interested in investigating the matter due to lack of resources and non-interest.

With how close many recent elections have become, and with how partisan the state currently stands on the issues, I think it's vital that we make sure that crap like this isn't occurring anymore. Voter ID is one way to do this, as two valid ID's with differing addresses would pose a problem to those would try and cheat, wouldn't it? Isn't it a relatively small price to pay to assure the integrity of our electoral process?

As we found on the recall petitions, democrats cheat, a lot

3.6 billion was robbed from tax payers by Doyle Bren. Walker made it go away because he cares about all of us.

@Bren: "littering is not conducted (usually) within a controlled environment."
I guess the 400 cigarette butts on the ground outside the local police department is because it is not a controlled environment?
I am aware of 5 people who have died in the past year, I could go to the polls and cast a vote in their name. No one would know that fraud took place. Unless you check my ID.

I don't want to sound dismissive, but if rampant voter fraud were actually taking place over time, something would have been done about it long, long ago. When I first registered to vote, I believe I had to provide proof of address (a bill or something) and I'm sure that is still the case. The voter ID issue is a straw man.

Steve, $3.6 billion is still with us using GAAP, along with a projected cash shortfall that is over $1,000,000 (I read $143,000,000 last month).

It's a recession. It is logical to suppose that existing financial woes would be exacerbated by the recession. I didn't logically expect a balanced GAAP budget any more than I expect 250,000 new jobs to appear by 2015. The issue for me is the apparent promise-anything-to-get elected theme. When Walker was running for CE, he promised to step down in 30 days if he wasn't doing a good job. A history of empty promises.

Bren: Back in the 50's when someone registered to vote, a policeman came to their home to verify the information. Times have changed for sure, but if we had the financial capacity to do this- would this not disenfranchise certain people?
What strikes me as another government blunder is the issuance of welfare checks to people who have no proof of their ID or citizenship. Perhaps the Fed could learn from the States?

@Cowdung

I have you're exact concerns. The fact that this law is partisan causes me concern. Let's get a law that addresses the problem efficiently, effectively and fairly. Let's not have something that is strictly partisan - that's not good for the people of Wisconsin.

Bren- Wake up, we had a Democratic Rep. illegally letting people vote. It is not as small a number as you think. The Milwaukee PD issued a report of rampant voter fraud in Milwaukee. The report was covered on Dateline and all the cable new networks. Is this the only way you Dems know how to win?

Dave:

How is this law partisan? How much more efficient, effective and fair could it be?

As an alternative, I'd say that we should go to a 'motor voter' type registration system like they have in other states, but it seems that we'd have the same issues arise. We could also prohibit voter registration drives and have everyone register at the clerk's office or at the polls (with proper ID), but again, the Dems would complain that it would suppress votes because it would be 'too hard' for people to register to vote...

We just need to find a way to get proper ID to everyone that needs one--it really shouldn't be that difficult...

►I don't want to sound dismissive, but if rampant voter fraud were actually taking place over time, something would have been done about it ◄

yep, it's called voter ID and with your non support you support voter fraud. shame shame shame

Sounds like Hoffa lives in a dump ...

Let's can the fake indignation Dung.

This is a cheap political move to suppress the vote period. Don't gussy it up with some kind of fake moralizing.

This is very easy. The only way someone gets to vote fraudulently is to assume someone's identity who is already on the voter rolls. Can you produce anyone who has experienced someone else voting in their place.

Dead, fake, and multiple registered voters don't complain

Can you produce anyone who is unable to get an ID?

Alfred, some evidence that zombies and "others who cannot vote" are terrorizing poll sites, please?

If a dead politicians name can be put on a ballot , and people vote for him , and he wins , then why is it unreasonable to think that dead people should not be eligible to cast their vote.

Same way they tried to block Act 10. Just legislate from the bench, cost the state millions in legal fees and block any progress. It's the adult liberal form of a temper tantrum.

Straight from the good book of ALEC.

We need more judges like this in the State of Wisconsin. Common sense approach.

You won't find that little tidbit of info mentioned in any of the news stories about this!

Why does this not surprise me.

Good find! Fair and balanced courts right libs?

Why doesn't this represent a clear conflict of interest that should effectively disqualify this judge from hearing these cases?

New motto of the Dane County Judiciary: "The law only really applies to the rest of the state - not us!"

@JRH. I agree with you and it is frustrating but you could look at it from the other side too. Maybe the next Judge voted for and supports Walker. It could go and does go both ways. Unfortunately it seems (more so lately than ever) that our judicial is not as impartial or moderate as we would like. Now, a real shocker would be if the judge supported the recall, but also allowed the voter ID to move forward because, well, it really should.

The addresses are different, but if this is the same person, he really ought to recuse himself.

Satori brings up a good point, what about David G. "Has promised to act as a 'complement to Walker because his views 'closely mirror' Walker's" Prosser, Jr.?

Judges are citizens too. Remember that it was Chief Justice Roberts of the Supreme Court and "conservative" activist who decided to re-argue, not rule on, Citizens United v. FEC, resulting in the rollback of campaign financing reform that has resulted in super-PACS, etc. (http://www.loc.gov/law/help/citizens-united.php). And Supreme Court Justices are given lifetime appointments so that they can (ostensibly) be above partisan politics.

@Satori -

I would agree with you about perceived bias going both ways if there wasn't a vast array of legally binding precedence already on the record in favor of Voter ID legislation, as there is. In light of such precedence, a judge should have ruled accordingly, whether they are anti-Walker or a Walker supporter.

Clearly, Flanagan, based upon his actions in this matter, has proven that he doesn't know how to wear the separate pants required for the position he holds and should either be effectively removed from such position and/or investigated and charged with judicial misconduct - end of story!

He signed the recall. His wife was the one to circulate the petition.

Impartial decision, I'm sure of it lol

That's his right as a citizen of the state ... has nothing to do with this case or Walker.

Voter ID is an obvious case of the Congress enforcing the 15th amendment. And the left doesn't like it because they don't believe in the constitution. They are pathetically un-American. And yes, I am stereotyping!

Where is the part about 'proper identification' requiring a photograph?

Randy1949, the idea has been instilled among certain constituencies that Wisconsin needs an expensive Voter ID bill and that idea will be defended, regardless to evidence that the number and type of documented incidences do not justify the expense.

Randy, why do you have such a problem with proving who you are in order to secure the validity of your vote?

BTW, securing the right to vote was left to the states.

@Chris Larsen-- The right to vote was indeed left to the states,some of which instituted poll taxes and literacy tests designed to suppress certain voters. That's why we have a Federal Voting Rights act.

I personally don't mind showing ID as long as it's really just to prove I am who I say I am. And I should be able to do that with an expired driver's license or a social security card. Or a student ID or a veteran's ID if that applied.

Craig ... Your just a racist , just admit it.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

cont (sorry)
Proving who you are and that you have the right to cast a vote under your own name is the only way to preserve the rights that are granted to us.

I wondered because I read that the Constitution leaves it up to the states.

And that is true. The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly guarantee a right to vote, and our federal courts currently read the document not to include it. It is a States right.

I am sure that Mac Davis-the judge who said he is proud to be an activist judge would suit you fine!!

I have heard somewhere that Mac Davis was perfect in every way, but it is hard for him to be humble...

What's the point of requiring an ID without a photo?

They can. You just have to trust that their personal feelings haven't nudged their judgement one way or the other on a point of law.

The recall of Scott Walker is over policy, not personal misconduct. Almost all states do not allow these types of recalls, and this one is very emotional. By signing the recall he has admitted his bias before trial can even begin. He admitted why he put an injunction on this law, which was in effect because of bias. Any law brought before this judge would there be ruled against the Walker team no matter what it entailed.

An injunction only stalls the law from taking effect. Same tactic the left played with Act 10, which if you haven't noticed is LAW.

These recall signatures have a nice way of biting you in the ass, can't wait until it is searchable.

Aren't they supposed to disclose that sort of thing ahead of time though? Once they declare the potential conflict of interest, it would be up to the justice department to decide if the judge needs to recuse himself from the case or not...

The problem here lies in the vast array of binding legal precedence in support of Voter ID legislation. When a higher court, such as an appellate or supreme court, issues an opinion on a matter, lower courts, such as the trial level circuit court that Flanagan sits on, must adhere to those opinions and proceed as is consistent with such. It's called the 'rule of stare decisis.' When judges fail to conduct themselves in accordance with such rule, it undermines the founding principles of separation of powers and checks and balances. Hence why they are called 'activist' judges.

Because David Prosser proved that was hard by declaring he would support Wlaker in every way he could.

Heather, ever notice how the Judges of the Supreme Court never clap or otherwise acknowledge any statement made by the President during the State of the Union address? It is because they want to ensure there is not even the appearence of conflict. If this Judge and his wife feel so strongly about recalling Walker, he should have, if he has any integrity at all, resigned.

Actually the UW system has implemented a new student ID for this exact reason. A DL could be from another State or even Country. A proper student ID gives them a right to vote locally. The cost of the ID is passed on to those paying tuition. I do not recall anyone bitching about the extra $10.

"How many students do you know that don't have drivers licenses?"
I know quite a few.

They like to throw the minorities in there, who will take it as support but in reality just slapping them right in the face. Do the democrats think minorities are too stupid to already have or obtain a photo ID? Or are they using the "minorities" as a chip in their game to block this common sense law? Racist libs just being racists I guess, need em to vote blue ever time.

Said the spinmeister.

One Dane County Circuit Judge David Flanagan, that's who!

Nice cliffhanger Jim. So tell us now, what did you guys find?

Huhnnnn? We found it was him. Otherwise we wouldn't have published that it was him. Just wanted to make sure everybody knew it was him.

That didn't seem all that obvious when you made your first post--I for one, didn't notice that the article had been updated to include the information until later...

@Tonto...I see that you are keeping true to your name -- "Tonto means fool".

A person who still clings to the "Birther Issue" is truly entitled to be referred to as a fool.

Actually "Tonto" means "wild one".

Oh yea, Mrs Peel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8 & http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7400631n&tag=pop;videos

What's so difficult about understanding the difference between a right & a privilege?

I agree. Collective bargaining was not a right, it was a privilege.

LOOK! A chicken!
It's so hard for some to focus. I understand.

I like reading the comments on the blogs that you post. Here is one from the above that sums it up

►Thanks for posting this. Hadn't heard it reported elsewhere.◄

Yes thank you for posting this. I hadn't herd this before it was made up and written on the interweb this AM.

You forgot a 20 year member of the ACLU. He's impartial as they get........

The perfect compliment to David Prosser.

Republicans like the law because it is perceived as stopping voter fraud and unfair elections...

It has nothing to do with what the Republicans "like". It is in the ALEC manual so it must be implemented at all costs!

"While there were few complaints and apparently few disenfranchised voters in Wisconsin's February primary, there were also relatively few voters. ........."
BINGO!

How's that different than Prosser claiming to be the perfect compliment to Walker's agenda?

Nobody is saying that Flanagan had no right to sign the recall, the point is that when he chose to sign the recall, he painted himself as a partisan that might not be able to rule impartially on things like the Voter ID bill.

What kind of 'free assistance for the whole process of getting the ID' do you mean?

The fact that free photo ID and free birth records are available seem to address your 'poll tax' claim.

The argument for the law is that partisan groups are capable of registering voters. Once 'voters' are registered, there is no way to check if the person voting under that registration is actually the 'person' that is registered...

Really? How does one obtain a free birth certificate?

Michael,

I asked this above, and would like you to answer:

What is so damn wrong with having to prove that you are who you claim to be to participate in one of the most sacred duties an American citizen can do, which is to vote. A right that many great men and women for 200+ years have fought and died for. A right that should not, and cannot be taken for granted. The tenant of "One person, One vote" is part of the background of the republic system. Why are you so against it? Why should you not be able to protect the sanctity of your own vote?
Also, what more do you want? The ID is free. Are you asking for a ride to the DMV? Someone to fill out thew form for them? Where is your data that there are "hundreds of thousands" of people in Wisconsin with no legal form of ID? I just don't buy it.

Walker:

http://www.getvoterid.org/free_milw_birth%20certs.htm

Thank you. I suppose that is some help.
"Milwaukee County Register of Deeds earmarks 5,000 free birth certificates - see if you qualify: Free birth records will be only given to persons who are residents of Milwaukee County (not to non-residents)."

@Walker -- So, you get a free birth certificate IF you were born in Milwaukee county, still reside there, and aren't number 5001 making the request.

It's the birth certificate part that makes me take pause. It's perfectly reasonable to have a means of proving you are the person who registered all those years ago and wish to vote now. But we've killed two birds with one stone by insisting on proof of citizenship as well. I legally satisfied the citizenship issue forty years ago when I registered for the first time. So did my mother and so did my spouse. Both of them were born out of state, and in the case of my spouse, all we have is a photo-copy because of a courthouse fire. For all of us, it's pretty obvious we're over the age of eighteen.

Pardon me for thinking that this law is more about making it so inconvenient to vote that some people will give up in frustration.

Settle Randy, that was my point. I too was born out of state & this does nothing for me. My Grandmother was born on the reservation with no birth certificate. 5,000 is a token & by only a single county. It's a joke.

Considering that you have to dig so deep to find the exact situation where someone would not be able to vote, I don't think that the law is about frustrating people out of voting. There really cannot be that many voters without ID and without birth certificates living outside of Milwaukee county. Everyone seems to be OK with requiring an ID to register, why is it such an issue to require an ID to actually vote?

I think that's the point. It wasn't an issue until ALEC made it an issue.

Walker:

Does this have to help you? Are you currently lacking a photo ID?

The question if this is a 'joke' or not will be determined based on how many free birth records are actually issued...

Walker:

What did ALEC make into an issue? The claim that the voter ID law is intended to suppress voters?

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Democracy,_Voter_Rights,_and_Federal_Power

Thanks for the propaganda. Let's try to discuss actual substance...

Acceptable form of ID: An identification card issued by a fedrally recognized Indian tribe in Wisconsin.

If the people live a long way away from a DMV (and presumably everything else), aren't they likely to already have a driver's license?

That leaves 5% who didn't. Never mind 'hundreds of thousands' -- it's enough to change an election. Besides, we're talking about voting while previously registered, not registering.

If they previously registered, then shouldn't they still be able to get the same ID that they used to register?

@CowDung -- In my case, I used a driver's license (no photo at the time) and a Social Security card, I think. It's been over forty years. I honestly don't know what my mother had to present at the DMV to get her first Wisconsin driver's license -- that was before I was born. I don't think a birth certificate was required, but thanks to James Sensenbrenner, it is now.

It was a requirement to show a birth certificate when I got my first driver's permit--that was long before Sensenbrenner was in office. Not to mention that I wasn't even living in Wisconsin at the time...

What does the "privilege" of driving have to do with the "right" to vote?

Nothing. You can use a state ID or a passport to prove identity if you aren't privileged to drive...

That is the cases of fraud that have been detected. There is no way of detecting the type of fraud that the voter ID law addresses--of course there aren't going to be cases of that kind of fraud being prosecuted. That doesn't prove that it isn't happening.

Partisan groups are permitted to register voters and get them on the voter rolls. Those 'voters' that they register might not even exist. Once the 'voters' are on the list, there is nothing to stop the partisans from voting under those registrations.

Keith my thoughts exactly.I have a 64 year old sister who lives in northern Wisconsin and has no ID at all except for her S.S. card.Never needed it.She does not and never has driven,her husband took care of banking ect and now her Son takes her any where she needs to go or she walks since she lives in a very small village,and in the past year they had no vehicle to get around in.So she would have been unable to get an ID and therefore be unable to vote if she wanted to.I myself am home bound and can't get out to the DMV for a new license since I moved 6 months ago.I would like to know how ya can prove ya lived her that long.I am still registered where I used to live and did have to show my DL to register at the village town hall.Now I live in a midsized city and have no Idea where to go to register to vote.

Is that the ruling where he talks about Justice 'William' Scalia and refers to the Article 1, Section 2 of the Wisconsin constitution (which deals with the prohibition of slavery)?

Sounds like the semi-coherent ramblings of a lefty activist...

...
Even rational restrictions on the right to vote are invidious if they are unrelated
to voter qualifications.

(HERE IS THE KEY POINT WITH EMPHASIS ADDED)
However evenhanded restrictions that protect the integrity
and reliability of the electoral process itself ARE NOT invidious. An Indiana statute
requiring citizens voting in person on election day, or casting a ballot in person at
the office of the circuit court clerk prior to election day, to present photo identification
issued by the government did not violate constitutional standards. Crawford
v. Marion County Election Board, 553 U.S. 181, 128 S. Ct. 1610, 170 L. Ed. 2d 574
(2008).

Constitutional law: residency requirements. 53 MLR 439.

So, can you explain how Act 23 violates Article III, or would you prefer to fall back on the old reliable "Interstate Commerce Clause" argument?

Anti-Alinsky: Re-read the Judge's ruling at http://www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/March12/0306/0306danecounty.pdf

Start with Section I: "The plaintiffs have based this case exclusively upon the guarantees set forth in the Wisconsin Constitution. They do not look to the U.S. Constitution as the basis for their claims. The Wisconsin Constitution sets out the basic framework of our state government. The right to vote is a fundamental, defining element of our society. The Wisconsin Supreme Court has described it as a 'sacred right' [citation of 1880 case]. It is a right which is explicitly and broadly guaranteed in the Constitution, in Article III, Suffrage.
. . . .
The legal issue before this court [is] what is permitted by the Wisconsin Constitution and that issue is not to be determined by what is permitted in other states."

Continue to Section X: "The Crawford decision [U.S. Supreme Court 2008 case] has very little application to the depute now before this court, however, for three primary reasons. First, this case is founded upon the Wisconsin Constitution which expressly guarantees the right to vote while Crawford was based upon the U.S. Constitution which offers no such guarantee.
. . . .
The question of what is permitted and what is protected by the Wisconsin Constitution is the issue before this court and that issue was not before the U.S. Supreme Court in the Crawford case."

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. Judge Flannigan cites Article III Section 1 of the WISCONSIN STATE CONSTITUTION as his basis for granting the injunction. I have cited Section 1 in it's entirety. Again here is the key point (WITH EMPHASIS ADDED)
"However evenhanded restrictions that protect the integrity
and reliability of the electoral process itself ARE NOT invidious."
Translated, it means as long as restrictions (such as voter ID) are applied to everyone, including our Governor, it is valid. The next section even goes on to reference the Indiana law upheld by the United States Supreme Court.

"An Indiana statute requiring citizens voting in person on election day, or casting a ballot in person at the office of the circuit court clerk prior to election day, to present photo identification issued by the government did not violate constitutional standards. "

There it is, straight up, voter ID DOES NOT violate the WISCONSIN State Constitution.

You sure you don't want to try the Interstate Commerce clause of the US Constitution?

I know it is essential to the Liberal agenda to get voter ID suspended for the likely recall election against Governor Walker so that you can truck as many Illinois and Minnesota unionistas in to vote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8 - http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7400631n&tag=pop;videos I didn't inhale, I didn't nave sex with that woman.... Fraud? what Fraud?

@John Feia -- It's obvious that this is about much more than proving you are whom you say you are. It's about making voting so inconvenient that some people will give it up as not worth the trouble.

Amen!

I've hung onto my old State picture ID from 1968. It should prove I'm a US citizen, right? (I wish i still looked like that.)

I wonder why those opposed to Voter ID need to make it so difficult for the workers at the polls. Poll workers are doing their job. It's not a political job. It's not a party specific job. The remarks and problems you create for the workers get noted, and that's it. If you have a gripe go to your legislature. In fact you may be giving a poll worker who is opposed to Voter ID a hard time.

A Wisconsin DOT issued driver license, even if driving privileges are revoked or suspended, A Wisconsin DOT issued identification card, A Military ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service, A U.S. passport....Identifications preceding must have an expiration date after the November 2, 2010 election. The only form of ID that does not specify that it needs to be unexpired is the ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in Wisconsin.

@Randy, if you resemble the photo at all it would be acceptable. Problem is it's expired.

@Mau -- If you squinted very, very hard, you could see the resemblance. But I ask you, why should it matter if it's expired if the address has remained the same all these years? Did I suddenly become not a citizen of the United States? Did I suddenly become someone other than myself?

As Mr. Feia says above, why the need to prove something again that has already been established?

I am guessing the fact that the ID is expired could mean that the person has moved. This could mean they have a new ID with a new address, so they could vote in two different wards. And who would know?
Randy does have a valid issue concerning his mother and her ID. I am sure this issue could be addressed - possibly by the facility she lives in? (if in fact she does live in one)
UW schools are now including photo ID's that are qualified for voting with tuition. The cost to the school is reported to be $10- I know that gets passed on to those who pay the tuition. I am not going to worry about $10 when tuition and boarding costs $23,000/ year.

For that matter why do we have to renew any license. That would solve the problem with expired ID. Why is no one feeling disenfranchised when they have to provide photo ID for almost everything else? Why is no one complaining about having to sign the register which takes much more time and now they have your signature legally verifying that you are indeed who you say you are.

@Craig, the facility my mother-in-law lives in provided classes for all the residents. Of course a photo ID was required for her to live there. They also brought in poll workers so that no one had to leave the facility to vote. I read somewhere there is a way around the photo ID in the extreme cases where they may have lost their birth certificate. The problem here is many have dementia and alzheimers, so how do they know who they are voting for anyway.

My sister-in-law took her mother to the DMV when we knew for sure she was moving in, to change her address. She could not find her birth certificate so did not take one along. The DMV worker informed them that she was entitled to a free ID because of the Voter ID change. She never drove a day in her life and now has a current State ID.

Knowing how the facility she moved into operates, if we weren't available to do this for her, they would have.

@Mau -- Why do we have to renew any license? Two reasons. In the case of a driver's license, eyesight and general alertness may have changed, rendering the licensee no longer fit to operate a vehicle. We have to check periodically. However, something like US citizenship does not change. The second reason is that fishing, hunting, and business licenses are a form of tax. And you can't charge a tax to vote.

mau: Thanks for the info.
Not sure if it fixes Randy's situation....let's say his mom lives with him, can't handle the car ride or wait at the DMV. Is there any options?
Before anyone starts to attack me- Understand I support voter ID, I am curious how to help people in different situations.

My mother lives in the independent wing of a senior facility. She no longer drives, and she's in chronic pain that would make a long session at the DMV hard on her, not to mention we'd have to get a certified birth certificate from Chicago. She'd gotten to the point in life where you don't think you have to prove your were born anymore.

In a case like hers, the law really ought to let her use her old Photo driver's license to prove her identity when she requests her absentee ballot. She's already registered at that address and voted in 2008 and 2010.

@Randy, did you call your state assembly or senator. I haven't had to for a few years but I have rattled some cages in the past and gotten results fast. Tomorrow I will try to find what I read about allowing exceptions in extreme cases.

Like any pieces of legislation they will find problems and make changes. I believe they want this to work and will do what they can to make it work.

My daughter-in-law had to re-register to vote when she changed her name, even though she is in the same polling district. All she had to do was show her new driver's license with her married name. When she got married she had to get a new driver's license, new social security card, and on and on. Both had to provide their birth certificates (not certificate of live birth) and driver's license to get a marriage license. Then they actually had to sign their marriage license in front of two witness, in the church, after the ceremony.

When I moved to Milwaukee at 18, you did not register at the polls. I had to ride the bus to the downtown courthouse, stand in line, and register to vote. When we moved to our present location, we had to go to the town hall to register to vote.

Why is this process a bigger hardship than showing your ID to buy cigarettes or go into a bar. Or stand in line for hours to get tickets for a sports or music event, or the latest electronic toy. Much worse stand in line with thousands of others waiting to get into these events.

Because, Mau, one is a Constitutional right and all the other things you cite are voluntary activities. I wouldn't bother to stand in line for a sports event or Black Friday.

@mau

My wife is not changing her name. She is a registered voter in this district where she voted last year. I admit, if we had been smart, she would have switched her D.L last year without this hassle. Why could we have accomplished this last year and not this year? It makes no logical sense but yet it does make sense...

@John Feia -- Your story is interesting, because it involves a person who currently holds a driver's license having a problem obtaining a new one. How many Wisconsin drivers are going to get a surprise when renewing their current licenses? Will we need to show proof of citizenship again?

@ Randy
I don't know if it will be the same for current WI residents but it make sense for us since we moved a whole 20 miles away from MN... All I can say is that I have been discusted by this process since I feel that know the motivation behind it.

@John, I was one of those anxious to take my husband's name and my daughter-in-law was the same. When I found out she needed to re-register because of the name change she went right up to the town hall.

@mau
You can't do just that anymore. I know this because my wife and I are experiencing that now.

My daughter-in-law did it just before the last primary. She had her driver's license with her married name and she went to our village hall and they registered her on the spot.

The problem I'm seeing is inconsistency. Everybody should be following the law the same.

Can you tell me how we are not following the same law? My wife was allowed to vote last November but now unless she provides a social security card and a certified North Dakota birth certificate she can't vote in any upcoming elections. She is 54 years old and has legally voted in past elections. What is being accomplished by this process?

Like I said before, we are going through with the the gymnastics required in order for my wife to continue to exercise her constitutional right to vote. My question remains, why is this necessary?

This is not a partisan issue. Most people a favor voter ID requirement.

Since we have a system that allows partisan groups to register fictitious people and then vote under those identities, we need to take steps to make sure that we can only vote once, and that we are who we claim to be when voting.

@Bob McBride...Literacy tests are outlawed as well as poll taxes. Try again.

Maybe they shouldn't be...

@Bob McBride...Thanks for being honest. Jim Crow appeal to you also?

Lyle, how does one vote if they can't read? Does someone assist them? You could use the same process for this.

What does Jim Crow have to do with it? Are you suggesting that only black people are illiterate?

Lyle I'd think you'd be in favor of something that encourages people to study the issues before hitting the polls. Why would you prefer a voter who can't even demonstrate rudimentary knowledge of what/who they're casting a vote for/against?

@Bob McBride...If we institute a "poll tax", which the Wisconsin ACT-23 is, we institute a literacy test, which you propose; isn't reinstating Jim Crow the logical next step? Also, their is no constitutional requirement for literacy to vote or in the Voting Rights Act. I hope this little exchange is nothing more than your famous wit and sarcasim.

Well I guess that's all you got - the race card. We don't want people to be identified as being who they are, nor do we want them knowing too much about the basics about the issues when they hit the polls. I'd hate to be on the side that thinks it has to have those two qualifiers in place to win an election, but to each their own.

Lyle, given the over-the-top reaction to the simple Voter ID requirement, do you honestly think I'd expect something like this to fly? I just wanted to see what the reaction would be from the side that insists that we have the loosie-goosie-est possible system in place when it comes to doing one of the most important things we do in this country. On the one hand you guys argue that at least half the people who get elected have no business doing so because they're ruining the state and the country or they don't have the knowledge required to make the decisions they're making, and on the other you want to make sure that the process that puts them there is as slipshod and as full of holes as possible. I pretty much got what I expected, with the race card thrown in as a bonus.

Maybe their should be morality and ethical standards applied to voters as well...

There already are.

Keith:

I think you assume that these phantom voters are registering at the polls, where they do have to show ID, and proof of residence. In reality, the issue comes from allowing partisan groups to submit voter registrations. It really isn't hard to get a bunch of names on the voter rolls.

How high is that risk of jail time? Once a name is registered, there is no way to confirm that the person voting under that name is indeed that person unless we have a voter ID law in place. If the registered 'person' doesn't really exist, there is no concern that someone is going to show up and see that their name has already been checked off...

You have no proof that anything in the first paragraph has not happened, and actually ACORN was caught submitting fraudulent voter registrations in the last election. There's your proof that it has happened.

It doesn't take 'stealth groups'--as I mentioned above, ACORN ended up registering lots of non-existent voters in the past elections. They got caught when some registrations were flagged for having non-existent addresses.

If they stopped allowing non-government (and potentially partisan) groups from registering voters, then perhaps I wouldn't feel so strongly that voter ID is needed, but right now it seems that it is way too easy to get a name on the voter rolls.

"Voter ID has no basis in fact."

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKhmYN4sy4k&feature=related

Just because you can do it doesn't mean people do it. This was the video from that twerp Jame O'Keefe, and as a result this dip should be spending time in jail so he can get to intimately know the black people he hates.

I would love to see that spoiled kid crying his eyes out as he is led off to jail.

Fail.

I guess you missed the part that stated ACORN actually has registered fraudulent voters. Voter ID is has become a necessary protection to make sure that only legitimate votes are counted.

Whether O'Keefe should be in jail or not isn't the issue. The fact remains that he demonstrated how it was very easy to vote in place of a dead person with little risk of being caught.

Why are democrats too stupid to show their ID?

"...people dishing it out have an agenda not to stoop fraudulent voting, but Democratic voting."

Republicans have just as much to lose, as many elderly rural citizens tend to lean Republican.

Steve -- why are Republicans, who claim they are against government intrusion -- insisting on us having to show them when they can prove nothing wrong has happened.

Stupid is basing laws on things that don't happen, unless of course you can't win elections based on issues and have to cook up this issue.

Are you people going to have something substantive to talk about on voter ID or just the usual childish taunts?

You brought up that this is an attempt to suppress democratic voting. So why are democrats too stupid to show their ID at the polls?

Steve, you obviously don't know crap about what you are talking about...as if ever.

It's sad you think minorities are too stupid to use their ID. Why do you keep using them as your pawn?

"True, but I think the GOP really doesn't give a crap about their supporters rights so they will take those collateral loses with all the minority votes they will ultimately suppress."

Valid point. However, I'm assuming that Dems may think this way regarding certain issues. Precisely why, as an independant, I vote by issue and not by party.

Lyle, wouldn't it be easier to just carry an ID?

@Ben Hogan -- It would be, if it weren't for the fact that the state is making it harder than necessary to obtain the ID. If it's just for purposes of ID, why the need for the certified birth certificate? See the problem John Feia's wife is having in obtaining a Wisconsin driver's license. Shouldn't a legal license from another state or a previous voter registration in Wisconsin be enough? Identity and citizenship were legally proven at that time.

One chip will do. You guys can never stay within budget.

Nobody can ever stop at just one chip...

Heheheh...

Randy:

I'm wondering if there isn't more to the story with John Feia's ID issues. I had no issue obtaining a Wisconsin driver's license (without showing a birth certificate) when I moved here from out of state.

I don't think that one can be certain that proof of citizenship was proven at the time one got a license in the past. One shouldn't have to be a citizen of the US in order to legally drive in this country.

@CowDung -- When did you move from out of state? That makes a difference. As for proof of citizenship, Mrs. Feia is already a registered voter, who established citizenship legally at that time. Again, are we worried about identification or citizenship with this voter ID bill?

I was living in Pennsylvania before I moved to Wisconsin.

We should be worried about identification with this bill...

@Lyle, now you're talking my language. (in jest) Why not a number tattooed on your arm.

They are already chipping children and the military so why not. Once we get that National ID the logical next step would be chipping. Or will there be an outcry about a national ID. They already suggested chipping so that you don't need to carry money. Yikes, in the hand or in the forehead :) You could start with babies so everybody gets used to it and accepts it. Kind of like people readily accepted the invasive scanner in the airports. The media could interview only those in favor of chipping. Especially if it will stop terrorism. They could chip them like a dog, when they issue the social security card and take a foot print. In fact to save pain, do the chip and circumcision at the same time.

@cowdung
There is nothing more to my story. Check the North Hudson voter registration log and see if you find the name Stella Feia. Call the D.O.T and the G.A.B and inquire about the necessary identification for either a driver's license or a State ID. Better yet, read the requirements for yourself...

@ cowdung
I omitted the website for you to see for yourself. Here it is:
www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/nonreside/oos-license.htm

In that case, my mother should be able to present her former Wisconsin driver's license to either obtain an absentee ballot or a State Photo ID without the need to dig up a birth certificate. And I should be able to simply switch my drivers license over to an ID when the time comes for me to stop driving. We'll see if it works that way, eh?

I bet you wouldn't Bem.

@ Ben Hogan
The beauty of it is that the disconnected person you describe can cast a vote and it has the same value as a vote you cast. I think I read somewhere that ALL people are created equal. Where did I read that?

As I understand it, once a voter is established as an absentee voter, they no longer need to provide an ID when they request absentee ballots (in Wisconsin). Potentially, they can establish themselves as absentee with their 'home' ID, and then obtain a 'residence' ID and still be able to vote in both places...

That's a loophole that needs to be closed ASAP!

@JRH -- How is Voter ID going to prevent the double voting? A student could use a drivers license with the home address to vote at home and use a student ID with the school address to vote at college.

When I went to college in MN I could vote there and still in WI absentee.

@All, I came to realize since last night, that I think supporters of Voter ID are just spinning their wheels. I don't believe those who are opposed to Voter ID want a solution or explanation of why it is easy to abide by the rules. No matter what solution is put out there to simplify the process, they come back with an excuse as to why they can't do it. Biggest thing is, for all these months of griping, they could have gotten that birth certificate or ID.

All they have to do is call their Village, City, Town or County Clerk, or state assembly or senator, and any one of these would go out of their way to help them. But they don't want to do that because then they would have no excuse that Voter ID doesn't work.

For that matter what is to stop a corrupt poll register, from falsifying the records. Especially when they have carte blanche to take their little show on the road, to any democrat function. And all these excuses from people who I am guessing already have power of attorney for their elderly parents who is either home bound or in a supervised nursing facility. It's just all excuses.

And all these excuses that the certain segments of our society are disenfranchised, many have no problem working the system to get whatever they can for free. Bet if there was an offer that in order to get some free food, shoes, cigarettes, liquor or lottery tickets, and all they had to show was an valid ID, they would be beating each other up to be first in line.

@Randy1949 -

The Voter ID law needs to be amended to stipulate that eligible student ID's only reflect a student's domicile, as opposed to their mere transient residence. In other words, before obtaining a student ID, a student must either show their driver's license OR declare a definitive domicile. There - problem solved! See how easy that was!

Voting twice? Maybe the State Assembly should should try and police its own actions:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/23/wisconsin-voter-id-supporter-caught-voting-for-colleague/

AFP (American's for Prosperity) is also holding an event that day.

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/3100083433

@mau...BTW, will David Koch be there?

@mau -

That is correct. If you're attending the AFP event, feel free to stop by after!

Good one Lyle!

I know that you'll definitely be at Brookfield Square, as you don't like to miss pro-Walker events ;-)

I think if I go it will be the Brookfield event. Even I don't like to listen to too many politicians. I'm going to see if the boy and his wife will come with me. Hubby might be working.

Well, since they are now open to political events, looks like we'll be contacting Brookfield Square to hold a dump Walker rally.

@Lyle, I hope Koch will be there. I'd love to meet him and talk JBS.

Tom ... Don't forget to wear your sheet to the Walker Klan Rally.

@Bucky -

Go away - your hate filled spews are polluting our Patch!

IM sorry James ... Please forgive me

Hoffa is nothing if he isn't compassionate. You are forgiven Bucky - just don't let it happen again ;-)

Thank You James ... lol