Thanks, Patchreader. This is a major event in our state's history and we believe it's important to cover it as thoroughly as possible

The Recall Scott Walker movement is sure to pass according to current petitioners and volunteers in the Recall Walker Campaign. One volunteer said, “I think we’re going to get 750,000 votes.” Volunteers are all over Wisconsin collecting signatures from students, faculty and everyday citizens. However, getting the votes for the recall election is not the biggest hurdle. Volunteer Carl Silverman said, “Whether we’ll win the election, we’ll see…”

Hey Merrily Snider I noticed your a pro abort.tonight on regular tv channel30 or if you have cable, ch.23 watch a short film called "180" perhaps it will get you thinking. respectfully-Thanks it's on at 7PM

Well if it's any consolation, thanks for falling on the grenade for the rest of us.

You can find them by Scotts neighbors.

Great Idea. I'll make sure this one gets passed along.

Oh their in the schools already..As a tax payer I do not think it appropriate..Sign your petitions on your own time...

Bet you do that a lot on your own.

@TosaRealist: Not sure what you mean. We're reporting on the events as they happen. Show me examples of "liberal bias"...

I think it is HILARIOUS how people throw around these accusations of media bias...HuffPo owned...blah blah blah. They want to live in a world of Fox News where they see NOTHING but what they want to hear and agree with.

I have to often walk away from Patch because it gets FAR too righty for me. When I first applied for the job, I wondered if I was signing on to a right wing site!! But that was due to the commentary/comments portions.

I can also say with all honesty that when reading a news article, I see NO bias. In fact, I had NO idea how the editors stood politically because their writing was so non-partisan. They are also very careful to balance out the opinions. They have right angled blogs and columns and left angled blogs and columns. How much more fair can it be???

Heather, Don't get too worked up about a few comments, as you said, you thought patch may be too far righty for you. As to your Fox comment and bias, you may not be able to see the pile of poo when you're standing in it.

Nick, technically, isn't a moocher in that I'm sure whatever renumeration he receives from UWM is earned, but certainly it's not out of reason to suggest he'd be biased towards having his status and that of his colleagues remain untouched and relatively immune from the effects of the economy as a whole.

@Nick... You can be an interesting read, weaving popular business books/authors with philosophical thinking et al. You only do yourself a disservice jumping in with both feet on Hitler rhetoric front.

Jay, as with a piece of mid-grade furniture taken from its conducive and protective environment and subjected to the elements for a significant period of time, the fine veneer of refinement can crack and peel, exposing its much more common base wood (how's that?).

Maybe Nick could loan you some veneer.

I don't care what Nick's education level is. Comparing Walker to either of those two is just ignorance at it's finest, no matter how anyone wants to spin it.

Did someone say "loan"?

Chis Heather:

Agreed.

Lyle Ruble has made similar, objectionable statements.

There is no politician in the U.S., regardless of party affiliation, deserving of comparison to an individual guilty of genocide.

Nick; you hit the nail on the head. Jan.2010 with Roberts Supreme Court ruling of corporations to have the right to have unlimited funds to our politics, legalized a Fascist ideology. Examples have been popping up all over our nation. Candidates for offices receiving $millions for offices that were once in the thousands. A bias is to be observed by the corporations funding for these candidates. Greater part of the republican party receiving the highest portion for their status-quo, regressive, conservative ideologies. Unfortunately with 84% of the nations wealth going to 20% of our populace and 16% to the remaining 80%. This is not the time for status-quo mentality.
“Party First” of no, no, no leadership, hopefully it will be their farewell party.

Let me get this straight, you are equating union members losing their collective bargaining and dollars to genocide of millions of people back in the 40s? I can affirm that you have taken the moral low ground.

Tosa; The fascist on this thread belong to their new Lord and Master Koch.

So your in favor of unions choosing the teachers health insurance providers?regardless of weather or not it's the best value for the taxpayers dollar? Nick you obviously have zeal, it's just a shame it's clouded by misinformation.You'll get there someday

Some of the actions taken by the unions over the past year certainly seem thuggish, and go way above and beyond 'providing workers with the right to bargain for working conditions, as well as wages'...

When will union people understand that collective bargaining is not a right. Private sector employees are subjected to the "whims" of their employers. Why shouldn't public sector employees be subjected to the same thing?

collective bargaining most certainly IS a right, although it isn't specified as such in the bill of rights. if it were a mere privilege, unions would have been dead in the water a long long time ago. if it weren't a right, gov walker would have just outlawed them.

mike-I, for state workers here, they're a "right" granted by the legislature in the '50s. In effect, they can be "outlawed".

No one is stopping anyone from joining a union .....Just like you can join AAA or the YMCA if you like...No one should be forced to be in a Union either.... Last I checked, The Civil Service Laws protects the public employee from most all of the problems that these Greedy Unions charge union members monthly fees for...

if you accept a job with the wage and benefits package negotiated by the union, but don't think you should pay for that service, you are a moocher.
if you accept a different wage and benefit package, perhaps not, but at that point the company is breaking THEIR contract. try that with your cell phone company or your auto loan, i'm sure they won't mind.

@ Kay Do you mean monthly fees like you have to pay at AAA or YMCA? Imagine some union official actually wants pay to represent its members. Last I checked these fees only had to be paid if you wanted to be a member.

Michael Schwister, My point was that no one is forced to participate..Not everyone in a union wants their money used for Liberal Agendas.. Thanks to Doyle now the unions have the right to harass voters who don't agree with them..Kinda like the unions harassed the businesses in Madison when they didn't get their way.. This recall and all of the whining about having to pitch in your own share, the teachers taking off school to protest ,the representatives leaving the State and still getting payed etc.etc.etc..IS SHAMEFUL..My daughter can't even be excused from a late slip when my car breaks down on the way to school.. But these so called public workers have no accountability??? Give me a break..

@ Kay, Would you feel the same way if it was you that was the target of plutocrats? A propaganda campaign designed to fragment our society, buy our politicians and provide a set of laws that would benefit dirty industries with no responsibility to taxpayers brought to us by the Kochs with Walker in his pocket. It will be interesting for the state as a whole to weigh in. I don't share his values and will sign tonight to ensure that my democratic rights aren't ignored.

The moocher point is a good one.

As far as "liberal agendas", if it wasn't for liberal agendas there would be no unions. Do you think conservatives would do anything to advance the union/working person cause?

In the case of those members who don't want their money used for politics, it is often because they are into the usual wedge nonsense that goes agains their self interest -- guns, gays, anti-abortion or because they think the Democratic party does too much for "doze colored people." Often then have a spouse who is making a ton of money and so they feel they don't need the union.

If any thing union membership, against the will of these people, protects them from harming themselves and others politically.

@mike_I
Collective bargaining is a legislated privilege given to unions by lawmakers.

Michael S.,
A propaganda campaign as you describe it is no different than the representatives who try to Socialize everything. Democrates and Republicans all have been playing the game for years at the expense of the tax payers...And there are plenty of big businesses and rich men in the Liberal camps too..(Acorn/Abortion Clinics/George Soros...who by the way funds alot of the mahemm to rile people up) Did any of you Liberals get pissed at Clinton when he pardoned his buddy the Billionaire who owed our country Millions in Taxes??..2 hrs before his Presidency was over... You either CHOSE to do what you have to for the ability to keep moving forward in this world...Or whine and piss and moan because you think everything should be handed to you..When the $ is not there...something has to give...The Unions won't bend unless they are pushed..That is not Walkers fault.I'm glad he pushed back and Thank him for Balancing The Budget..Common Sense always prevails..

az_rosie, you are incorrect, the supreme court has held that the first amendment gives unions the right to exist and organize under the freedom of association clause. i think you mean the labor relations act, which specifically gives unions the right to organize, but that isn't where the right originated. union representation was a right in this country before that act was passed,

Yep, good point MikeL. Walker didn't publicize his collective-bargaining plans, which opens him up to a recall attempt. The same would be true for a Dem who passed major legislation without talking about during their campaign.

Did Barret talk about his plan for a Milwaukee street car loop during his campaign for mayor?

Walker has pushed for these very same concessions for YEARS as Milwaukee Co. Executive. The unions told him "no deal". You didn't see this coming, I guess you are blind or stupid. Most, if not all, candidates do not spell out all of their wants and ideas.

When did Obama ever campaign on reforming federally guaranteed student loan debt? And he circumvented the Congress and is doing it on his own via an executive order making it even worse! Plus Obama never said anything about having a federal individual mandate to purchase health insurance or face a fine as a part of health care reform, did he?

I guess if campaign representations/silences are the standard, then it’s time to impeach Obama and just about every other politician out there, right?

Like Wisconsin Dems such as Cory Mason who campaigned against raising taxes but then went along with doing so when Doyle pushed it?

Better just start recalling and impeaching everybody to be safe.

Come on - let's grow up!

@Dustin- so when Governor Doyle spoke at his State of the State address (in 2007, I believe) and said that "the problem is not that Wisconsin is taxed too little, but as a State we spend too much", and then promptly supported $1 Billion in new taxes and fees, he should have been recalled? That was a bold-faced lie. He knew it then. Governor Walker promised in the 2010 campaign to close the budget gap without raising taxes. Mission accomplished.

@Greg, Good after Walker is recalled, other candidates will start spelling out their wants and ideas and not try to back door it or leave it in the fine print. Lets face it the only person here to blame for this recall is Scott Walker, nice to see his supporters are out trying to blame everyone else, be it ignorant voters, Al-Qaeda, the Easter Bunny, but at the end of the day Scott Walker has to man up and take responsibility for this, he put this "POX" on his own house.

@ James Hoffa, if you can get the votes to impeach Obama then do it, unfortunatly (or fortunatly depending on whose side you are on) Wisconsin has this law on the books to recall him and a large number of voters are feeling that they were not given all the facts as to what Walker would do plus Eight State Senators were also put up for recall votes of which 2 lost. Instead of waving your hands up in the air calling for mass chaos, why dont you write your legislators and get this recall law off the books. Remember James Hoffa (if thats who you really are) this is a 2 way street, just because you are upset as to whats being done now, A Democrat could be elected next time and do the same thing, then you and Cowcrap and the rest of your Walker supporters can have your pajama recall parties and do the same thing...Hmmm starting to wonder if all the naysayers to the recall are upset because they weren't invited to the sleepovers last night, hmmmm... Im kidding, just kidding....

MikeL MCO:

The impeachment of a president should have more to do with laws being broken than about having enough votes to do it.

Apparently what you don't understand is that those of us who oppose this recall are doing do because the recall is politically motivated. We accept election losses when they happen and acknowledge that the majority has spoken when our favored candidate loses. We don't try to subvert the system by pushing for recall elections when elected officials cast a vote for legislation that we don't agree with.

impeachment is an entirely different mechanism and process from recall. the comparison is not apt. you may recall clinton was impeached but served his remaining time in office. likewise, gov walker isn't automatically out if the recall drive is successful, they still have to vote a challenger in over him, or he's back in office. nobody is preempting your right to vote if it comes to a vote.

This is America and thank God you have the right NOT to have to sign the recall petition, God Bless America

The Toyota has a non-Union manufacturing plant in Kentucky...

Here's a table documenting the union made or not status of various automobiles

http://www.ml46.org/html/american_cars.html

@Michael Schwister -

Japan, South Korea, Germany (limited to U.S. production plants), France, etc.

@Michael Schwister -

Mexico, many South American nations, .....

Instead of falsely contesting the question, why don't you try answering it?

@ CowDung Thanks for the link. @ Hoffa You can thank him too

@Michael Schwister -

CowDung knows I have his back and appreciate his efforts!

Note that the list is incomplete.

So Michael, when are you going to answer the question?

I agree, lets tell out legislators to take this law off the books so no future politicians or taxpayers have to endure this nonsense Dem or Rep.

if it's a minority, why are you concerned? didn't have a problem spending money on a 'mandatory to vote' id card, then charging 28 bucks, and failing to notify wisconsinites that it was available for free. special interest groups? like those who want to abolish environmental and workplace safety 'regulations'? like giving state owned assets away for free to corporate interests? oh, you mean unions and people who work (or would like to) for a living.

Do I really have to repost it? You never answered the question - all you did was falsely challenge it's validity, which has now been proven to you. So please, answer the question -

Question for public union members or public union supporters – If ‘solidarity’ and ‘brotherhood’ are at all truly still alive in today’s unions, then why, when I visited numerous public school faculty parking lots in SE Wisconsin, did I find that 68.9% of the vehicles in those parking lots were foreign or non-union built?

In other words, why does ‘solidarity’ and ‘brotherhood’ only seem to apply in a political matter that deals with taxpayer dollars but not when it’s a public union workers own money in choosing to support your fellow brethren in the UAW by buying union-made American? Can anyone on here explain that one to me at all, as I just find it fascinating!

Just trying to understand the question.

@Michael Schwister -

What don't you understand about the question?

of that 69%, how many were new cars? used cars don't make any difference in terms of union solidarity, they weren't necessarily bought new by union members. and as far as 'made in the us', toyotas available for purchase in the us have the highest amount of 'made in the us' parts, whether or not they were union made, compared to most big three models, and rest assured plenty of those parts and components were union made (made at plants where the employees are represented by a union). i'm not mikel mco or michael schwister, hope you don't mind me butting in.

What do you suppose the % of US, union made parts is in an Audi TT, like the one I see parked out in front of WFB HS with the vanity plates approximating the words "Educate Them" on it?

mike_l -

Thanks for actually attempting to answer the question. Don't know the percentage of new vs used, however, that shouldn’t matter as buying a domestic union built brand is symbolic of 'solidarity' and 'brotherhood,' and symbolism is very important to those mantras, right? After all, what’s the deal with all of the ‘clenched raised fist’ posters I see being carried by the pro-public sector union crowd if I’m wrong?

BTW - This trend started long before the Japanese started building and operating non-union shops in our country. And what exactly do you think allowed the Japanese to be able to do that exactly? What's the penetration of our goods in the Japanese market vs the penetration of their goods in our market? Why do you think so many big three UAW plants were closed down over past 30 years? We controlled and represented a majority of both the supply side and demand side of the auto equation well into the late '70's. We sold our domestic industries out via our consumerist habits.

And prove to me that Toyota has more union made American parts in their non-union assembled cars than the big three do in a majority of their products. I’d love to see and evaluate the source of that information.

And while you’re at it, perhaps you could explain why Wisconsin union-made Georgia-Pacific products show up on the public sector union boycott list if it’s really all about ‘solidarity’ and ‘brotherhood’ as they are claiming it to be!

union members aren't quite as rich as you'd like to present, most working people, union or not, have to make choices between a necessity and symbolic gesture, otherwise, i'd never shop at walmart.

the gp thing is iffy, true enough, many gp plants are union, but gp aggressively erodes working conditions, the only thing they seem to understand is wages, a balance between working and non-working life means nothing. if they pay enough, you should prefer to work overtime, regardless of family or outside interests. this is also shown in the walker law, wages are the only issue that can be negotiated, not benefits, working conditions, discipline (union employees can be and are fired for various reasons), terms of employment, etc. is the money you make working the only reason you exist?

jimmy hoffa, justcurious, what makes you certain that the audi, or any particular one of the other foreign made cars you counted, belonged to union members, as opposed to administrators, who are 'management' not union members. while i'm sure that many union members don't exclusively buy american or buy union, you are making assumptions that may or may not stand in actual fact. and as far as expecting union members to buy used cars based on the workforce that built them, that seems like quite a stretch to me, especially when it's someone with your apparent views that is asking it.

I brought up the Audi. It's a teacher's car. Teacher's at that school are union represented. Could it be used? Sure, but I doubt it and even if it is, it's no more than a couple years old. The point is that if you're about union solidarity (which they aren't) and you're just getting by on a measly teacher's salary (which they're not), you don't buy that car, used or new.

so now you decide who should buy what kind of car? you get to choose how everybody else can spend their money. there is a word for that, starts with 'h' and ends with 'ypocrisy'.

@mike_l -

The only true 'HYPOCRISY' is that which is coming from public sector union members who shout things like 'solidarity' and 'brotherhood' while failing to support their domestic private sector brethren by choosing to buy alternative products, such as a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Kia/Hyundai/etc.!

If you're serious about 'solidarity' and 'brotherhood,' you'd make it a point in all aspects of your life and only ever try to support your own - especially where you have the choice to do so easily available to you.

My point, based upon my survey, is that about 70% of public school employees across the state don't follow this rather simple to understand and essential concept in actually practicing 'solidarity' and 'brotherhood.' They can say the terms all they like, however, a majority of them apparently need to go back to school in order to comprehend what those terms actually stand for. Instead of just talking the talk, they should put up or shut up by walking the walk!

Get it now?

If you really want to understand the reality of the situation, try reading all of the comments I've posted in this thread. Then get back to me if you have further/additional questions!

No, mike, I get to decide which group of self-described victims of Scott Walker's 10-1/2 months in office are BS'ing when they claim they're fighting for the middle class (as opposed to just whining because you-know-what rolls down hill) and BS'ing when they cry poverty.

Geez, and I thought William Faulkner died in 62. Apparently he's posting from the ether.

@GKing -

I visited 35 public schools and was told by school officials that the lots I surveyed were indeed faculty reserved parking lots - which would include teachers, administrators, and supporting school employees.

I merely recorded the origin of the vehicles present based upon the following qualifiers:

American union made = traditional domestic brand (big three and prior defunct brands) domestically assembled with unionized labor.

All others went into the foreign / non-union assembled (including big three products assembled in Mexico and/or Europe) category.

Hope this helps to clarify the intent of my question and the scope of the survey I conducted.

BTW - It was 68.9% of all vehicles surveyed that fell into the foreign / non-union assembled category.

It just confuses me, because although I’m non-union, my family is multi-generational UAW so I’ve always been very careful to only ever purchase traditional domestic brand vehicles that were domestically union assembled featuring domestically produced drive-train components.

I just thought with how these public sector union people are touting ‘solidarity’ and ‘brotherhood’ lately, that their purchasing habits/preferences would have predominantly mirrored my own. Needless to say, that presumption was grossly incorrect, leading me to wonder if these people actually understand the true meaning of those terms.

Back in the ‘60’s, do you think the real Hoffa would have let a member of the IBT park a non-union built car in a local’s union hall parking lot? I don’t believe a member who would have done such a thing would have been a member of the IBT too much longer, if you know what I mean. So where’s that kind of passion from the pubic sector unions today?

Im raising my child to know if you work hard at a company whether it is a union or non union job you should be able to retire from that job with all the benefits that the company promise you if stayed there for that amount of time.Whats wrong with that? Let the voters decide if they want to keep walker but i agree with the recall.

@tina-

So how exactly is Walker denying anyone their earned/promised pension payments? You may want to educate yourself a little more on the specifics of the legislation before buying into the propaganda and rhetoric.

Plus, you still didn't explain why it was OK for the public sector unions to LIE and then cry when their bargaining privileges were taken away because of those LIES.

After all, don't you punish your child if you catch them lying?

MikeL - for goodness sakes - can you lose the Koch Bros paranoia? Clearly, Doyle did not work for the People of Wisconsin. I am sure his bank account does well too - ask Foley & Lardner. I do agree with one statement, it will take years to repair the damage this man (Doyle) has done.

We sure aren't getting a head start with Walker. Note the new jobs numbers today.

I am hardly a Doyle fan, but he didn't balance the budget on the backs of poor, unemployed, those with health problems and the UW system -- including its students. Plus he fought to fund stem cell research, unlike Walker who has to placate the control freaks with Wisconsin Right to Life.

And yes, the threat from the Koch's is very real. Why do you think they are dumping millions into our political system? It's not out of civic virtue.

As for Doyle, he is no doubt getting paid what other attorneys at his level get paid at Foley. Don't try to make an issue where none exists.

ima, i think you are the one that's paranoid, or are you just a weak reader? mike_l is not the same as MikeL MCO. we are definitely not the same person. there may be duplicate accounts here, but i'm not one of them. my deal is, you don't say soros, i don't say koch.

What, did he sneeze?

Otherwise, God help us because of Scott Walker.

Yes he sneezed............................RECALL HIM, HE'S A WITCH, THAT'S PURE EVIL COMING OUT OF HIS NOSE........
Sound familar, it should, it's you.