It is widely understood the past 16 months of crybaby activity and subsequent recall effort is over-the-top. Once Barrett and Lehman get dispatched (again!) you can bet the recall process will be tightend up in Wisconsin.

The recall process was intended for maleficence in office, like the Milwaukee County pension scandal. Governor Walker has done nothing for personal gain, unless you count earning the gratitude of every taxpayer in Wisconsin.

Your obsession with ALEC just amazes me. When are you going to start paying the same attention to the American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO, National Education Association, Greenpeace, NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus and other groups that lobby for the extreme Liberal agendas.

Bren again plays his one note ALEC song. ALEC provides legislative templates, there is a lot more to the process of creating law. But that would take actual thought on the leftys part.

unfit by whose standards?? What you forgot to mention Bren is that he also happened to balance the budget and not raise taxes at the same time. Whether you care to acknowledge this or not, it is an important and courageous decision that was the responsible thing to do and will have longer lasting positive impact on our future generations vs saddling them w/ fiscal burden. You utilize the word unfit??? Unfit by whose standards?? Yours? You are an "n" of 1 and whether you care to admit it or not the recall process has been abused at the taxpayers expense and was not appropriate. I need protection from politicians who have allowed spending to run rampant and "feel good, bleeding hearts" that care not to make the hard decisions.

No the recall is for liberals having temper tantrums. I stand by Scott Walker and all he represents.

Amen; well said, @Bren.

@bren; Had your fantasy of the reason for recall truly been in place, the precious governor would have been out on his ear before his inauguration. In fact, Walker has done exactly what he promised.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that your assertion "The recall process is in place specifically for cases such as the one we now face. A governor who was elected on a specific platform turned an about-face and instead pulled out a new agenda crafted by ALEC", is patently false.

My compliments on your writing style and excellent use of the language, but GAWD, are you dumb.

Sorry, TYPO ALERT!!! - previous, not precious. c is next to v and spellcheck doesn't catch a real word even if it's the wrong one, making for some delicious embarrassment, NAMELY MINE.
Signed:
Red-faced Dick's Deli

Bren, who do you thinks creates and sustains jobs? Don't say government, because it takes roughly 7 private sector jobs to pay the taxes necessary to support one government employee. So if we create 50 government jobs, that's roughly 350 private sector jobs that need to be created by some form of CORPORATION or BUSINESS. No one writes legislation except the lawmakers. Even Scott walker cannot WRITE legislation, he can only sign it into effect. Bren, what union do you get paid by to write this useless rhetoric you flood this great site with?

@ Brett Bushman --"Bren, who do you thinks creates and sustains jobs?"

Customers -- actual; demand for a product or a service creates jobs. Paychecks create customers. How many government jobs does the income tax from one $4million per year CEO salary and bonus create, especially if that CEO earned it by offshoring 500 jobs? Except that CEO is complaining about the hardship of his/her high taxes.

ALEC is also responsible for sun spots, toys in Happy Meals and liberals.

I thought that they had spent so much time wiping out the dinosaurs that they didn't have time for the sunspots and other activities.

Did you know ALEC is responsible for climate change? I read it on a blog from a creditable source relayed on the ED show and picked up by ABC nightly news. You guys need to do research and wake up! Voting for Barrett will stop the ALEC/KOCH agenda which will reverse climate change.

Obviously not that 'widely supported' given the successful collection of more than enough signatures to recall.

Impeachment is for criminal acts. Recall is for politicians like Walker who gain office by a slim majority and then consider it a mandate to do anything and everything they never mentioned during their campaign.

Give it up, Randy. Walker didn't pull the wool over anyone's eyes, including yours. Besides you didn't vote for him in the first place, making your argument all the more specious.

Incidentally, Walkers win WAS part of a nation-wide mandate to put the adults back in charge. Apparantly you don't understand the meaning of "shellacking."

I see someone left the cave door open again, all the Teanderthals are crawling about with their knuckle-dragging nonsense. Walker is a puppet of the fascist Koch Brothers and their enabler, Dirt Bag Armey. And cut the nonsense about "necessary reforms". You extremists have needlessly attacked average citizens doing their jobs for the good of their community, towns, and state.

@GearHead -- Scott Walker won by a four point margin in an off year. Four points is not my idea of a shellacking or an overwhelming mandate.

Who is more "extreme" those desiring fiscal sanity or those who think Unicorns crap endless supplies of money for an ever expanding public sector?

Taking money from someone's pocket for your pet project or benefit is simple theft.

@Randy: A tidal wave of Republican gubernatorial wins nationwide, congress flips R(including WI 7th district) Feingold is retired, and we pick up the State Senate. Retained judge Prosser. More democrat retirements. Yep, that was a shellacking. Still don't believe me? It was Obama's own words! Gosh, you have a short memory.

And Ipso, keep up the spewing. You've already lost whatever pathetic argument you were trying to make.

@Gear Head, my memory is longer than you think. The 'shellacking' is the result of some complex causes -- mid-term apathy and disaffection with the Dems over the poor showing in the healthcare fight, the premature reporting of the 'death' of the Republican party after the shellacking you guys took in 2008, and just plain money, money, money spent to regain GOP control across the board.

@ Randy, your memory may be OK, but your math certainly isn't as Walker owon by a 5.7% margin against the same candidate in what's historically been a slightly "blue-toned" state........

Oh boy -- I was off by a whole 1.7% (and that WAS from memory). Hardly a resounding mandate in a traditionally purple state, where we tend to go back and forth between GOP and Dem governors.

@Randy, do suppose the victories of 2010 by Republicans and resting back control of the House of Reps. just might have been a reaction to what the Democrats did in the preceding 2 years?

Or was that unusual circumstances too?

@Ed Larson -- What exactly was the horrible thing the Dems did between 2008 and 2010? Other than turn us around from the worst financial slide since 1929? I do remember a lot of lying and hysteria on the part of GOP demagogues. Death panels? "Get your government hands off my Medicare"?

@Randy,
Gee I don't know Randy. There must have been something to upset the voters and throw the bums out.

Let's see: Obama care, Failed "stimulus" More porkulous. Continued wasteful spending, no budgets submitted, refusal to pursue a rational energy policy.

Probably a lot more but you get the idea. The voters didn't like what the Dems were selling.

You know, for someone who lives in filth and squalor, from paycheck to paycheck, why do you want Barrett to take what little you have left in the form of more taxes Randy? Do you enjoy seeing your wife and kids starving and wearing rags?

@Alfred -- Filth and squalor? You sure do make a lot of assumptions, Alfred.

@Ed -- Someone has been lying to you.

@Alfred -

That was pretty low. Randy1949 is a decent hard working guy - that was uncalled for.

@JRH -- Thank you. To set the record straight, we're semi-retired, with a very small business that relies on our customer base having the spare cash to spend on our service. The worse the economy gets, the less business we have and the more semi-retired we become. I imagine Hoffa is experiencing the same, although to a lesser extent.

The guy lives hand to mouth and he is advocating the election of a politician who promises to take more of what little he has....think about it.

First of all, Alfred, I don't live hand to mouth. But do you have contempt for those who do? I'd probably be a complacent conservative like most of you if my life had gone as planned and I hadn't learned how the other folks live.

Every time income tax goes down at the federal or state level, we see an increase in property taxes OR user-fees at the local. It's been that way since the Reagan years. Walker is going to hurt me, maybe not this year, but eventually.

I'm not looking for a handout. All I want is people like Diane Hendricks to pay their fair share of taxes so people like me don't get bled dry to make up for the tax 'incentives' that bribe her to keep her business here in Wisconsin.

Walker it done, put a fork in him.

Ipso = Bren, is that you?

what unions. walker busted them temember. and you need to read about the tax break walker and grothman gave to the corporations and their wives. it will be totally fazed in by 2015. thier tax rate in wisconsin will go from7.75% to less then zerro. and anyothe businees that wants to change to corporation will also pay no tax. with out thqat tax revenue IT'S WE THE PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE. HOW STUPID ARE YOU. AND THE HUNTERS. IT'S STARTING TO LEAK OUT THAT THE [PUBLIC HUNTING GROUNDS WILL ONLY BE OPEN TO THOSE WHO WILL PAY LIKE THEY DO IN TEXAS. ENJOY

Got anything to back up what you say linda? I think not.

Linda - the corporations and their wives? Really? I thought Mr. Barrett said it is an attack on women? No wait, his female staff is paid less than his men. Never mind. It is an attack on, oh, whatever is the feel good emotional thought of the day. But wait, how do the wives figure into this? What is the corporation is gay?

Wow, that's even loonier that Bren's typical rants.

and you forgot to mention ALEC.

Corporate influence in politics is no different than union influence in politics.

Unfortunately they never stop whining and crying foul. You know, it's all Bushes fault. ;-)

4 more years??? Good thing you have an understanding of our government, otherwise your comment would just come across as kinda stupid.
By the way, electing a new Governor will not reverse any of Walker's reforms.

Yes I can.

More fiscal responsibility and less union thuggery.

Linda - some school teacher was not doing her job - ever hear of spell check for your rants?

Nick, your entitlist days are over Kool-Aid drinker. Move to Illinois, bankrupt home of your "messiah." LOL!! Wisconsin is progressing.

If the teachers were not so concerned with smaller class sizes in order to fill their ranks might give them more respect. If teachers "feel" they are losing support maybe they propose less administration, fewer buildings and more time in the class room.

You have to wonder how teachers managed with 30 or more students in the past.

Maybe if there was less social engineering and a return to real education we could have something to be proud of again.

Things haven't gone haywire. The cost of the recall is absorbed by taxpayers as a whole whether they agree with the minority of the state's residents that demanded it or not.

The provision needs to be changed. If it happened once for no good reason, it can and will happen again. We, as a state, can't afford having this out there as a weapon to be used to secure political retribution every time one side doesn't get its way.

Dave if you think I'm wrong I'm more convinced than ever that I'm right on the money.

Dave, if you believe the turmoil in this state has been caused by the elected officials rather than those who, from the beginning of Walker's term, have been participating in job actions, demonstrations, lawsuits and recalls, then I don't know what more I need to know about you to determine that if you disagree with me, I'm on the right course.

None of the predictions of doom and gloom have panned out as they were supposed to. Schools buildings are not crumbling from disuse and neglect. Women, children and the poor aren't roaming the streets in search of food, clothing and healthcare. Nothing, absolutely, nothing rises to the level that would warrant the series of recalls instigated by those on the left who still feel the sting of an unexpected loss at the polls in 2010.

Given all that and the fact that, despite that, we're in the middle of an expensive, disruptive, divisive recall means that whatever it was that in the past kept the recall provision from being used as a tool for political retribution has dissipated. As a result, the provision needs to change so that we can never go through this again. It's not worth it.

Dave, predictions of what might happen, particularly in light of the last batch not having come to fruition, shouldn't be enough to warrant a recall. Yet, thanks to the loosey goosey recall provision we have here, they are. That's got to change, period. The genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back in. Time to kill, or at the very least maim, the genie.

Dave

Following your commentaries I do not agree with all but I must agree with you on this one. It is way too early assess the Walker effect. Early on blogs were reporting property tax savings of hundreds of dollars (GEICO types). Now comments are talking $50, $75, $100, etc. Mine was $35 or so last year, after I took a hit on property valuation due to the housing slump that was not commensurate with the state enforced tax "freeze" and ACT 10. Our police, 50% of our local tax levy, remain untouched by Walker's ACT 10 free pass, are already saber rattling about needing more increases to protect our communities citizenry lest the "thugs" take over. And our local gov't has no choice but to give in due to Walker's (and Doyle's) "reforms" taking away more local control of taxation and service delivery. Who are the "thugs" I ask? Anyone? Most comments here on these articles are from those who have no local gov't experience, yet think the state is the end all to control expenditures. This is how socialism is spreading in this country. Apathy and ignorance stinks. Shut off the talk show blabber mouths on the radio, TV and get involved locally!

The recall provisions in our state constitution need to be overhauled. If the shoe were on the other foot, republicans would be doing the same. Fair is fair. Fix the damn problem. This is not what the recall clause is all about.

I seem to recall that the woman arrested for sending the death threats to Republican legislators was an early childhood teacher. Was she not engaging in 'thuggish' behavior?

I need security for my family. Security of knowing that the teacher teaching my children is there because he/she is a qualified professional, not just someone who is hiding behind a union. Private schools have teachers too, but their job security is based on merit. A lot of people invest time and money in a degree, most are called professionals and do not belong to unions. What makes these teachers so different? Other than summers off, of course.

Dave

I used the word "thug" to refer to muggers, buggerers, half wits, nit wits, etc. You have seen "Blazing Saddles", haven't you? OK?

Not sure I understand what the point of your last post is, Dave. If my kids were in her classroom, I hope she isn't teaching anymore...

Threatening violence and death against our elected officials and their families certainly seems to fit the definition of thuggery...

?????????????

I only wish my job is as demanding as teaching.
Everything you say is good and well, but not really any different than any other professional, so why the need for the union?
Does the "security" of the union not cover those who perform poorly? Or do you not think that there are any bad union teachers?

I remember seeing teaching students at UW Madison finger painting for a class....pretty rigourous stuff if you ask me.

Dave, every job has it's ups and downs. Most all of us work, and a few of us even went to school. You can't pee on our leg and tell us it's raining. I don't dismiss the efforts of good teachers and I think they should be well paid, and they are. I have several friends that are teachers and they don't think that they are nuns. Can you name any doctors or lawyers that can use the same lesson plan, for eighth grade math, fifteen years in a row and that gets the summer off? As for a good health plan, they still have that, but paying a portion is called "having a dog in the fight". Without a dog in the fight, their is no incentive to keep costs down. There is no such thing as cheap health insurance. A lot of people in the real world pay 25% of the premium and still have deductibles in the $6000 range.

Dave you certainly carry the water for the teachers union well, is your wife a teacher? You are either ignorant, biased, or just plain stupid if you don't know how much teachers make in their 'retirement' years from retiring at the grand old age of 55. Its a scam and I am glad it is coming to an end.

If Math does not change much, why do we pay extra to have so many teachers with masters degrees? Should we instead have one person with the masters head the math department and create the lesson plans, then have the lower paid teachers do the classwork? Teaching seems to be the one job that you get paid by your level of education rather than by the job that you do.
As for the working conditions, you have got to be kidding me!! Try factory work once or work in a trench in winter. You have no contact with reality.
The teachers that I know call their summer off VACATION. My leg is SOOO wet and it is not me.

Dave:

Please explain to me how teachers have given up salary and working conditions to justify them 'earning' their other benefits.

Public school teacher salaries tend to be higher than teacher salaries paid in private schools. As far as working conditions go, being in an air conditioned classroom from 8 AM to 3 PM, for 180 days a year doesn't sound all that hostile of a work environment, and for the most part, not all that different than the working conditions found in private schools.

Greg:

I think that the Master's degree requirement is a waste. Studies have shown that Master's degrees don't translate into better performance by the students. I don't see why taxpayers should pay teachers 'extra' for something that isn't really providing any additional benefit.

Ed Larson...Instead of punishing the people who need the insurance the most, why not try to put some restrictions on the insurance industry and some of their practices? So they earn a little less profit. They'll still make out like bandits!

Dave, as you have never had a dog in the fight, I don't expect you to understand the concept.
When people get something for free, an entitlement, they abuse it and the cost goes up. If the person has to pay for something or part of something, a dog in the fight, they will be more cautious and conservative, then the costs are maintained.

I don't think you have any idea what what hard is, try creating a product and selling it, try having to make payroll.....if you are a 'retired' teacher then you certainly are biased and I suggest that you take an economics class in your spare time and try to understand where your paycheck and retirement paycheck comes from. Someone has to create that dollar first before it can be taxed so you can be paid. If you are having a hard time understanding why teachers, and basically all government workers are being targeted, take a look at your tax bill and all taxes in relation to what you bring home each year...for most of us it is almost 50% of what we make....thats why you are being 'targeted', plus we are getting sick and tired of the dunderheads your kind keep pushing through the system only to us business owners to reteach kids proper grammar and communication skills.

@Dave Koven -- I'd like to play both sides of the argument this one time. Property taxes have mushroomed over the past twenty years or more, and it's the school levy. At the same time, the education gets worse and worse. I have step-grandchildren who have trouble with reading and basic arithmetic at the middle-school/high school level. This is simply not acceptable.

I don't think it's the fault of the teachers. Part of it is indifferent parenting and part of it is the embracing of every new theory of math and reading to come down the pike. Some of it is the mandatory testing, which leads teachers to teach to the test and turns out little parrots who have little understanding of the basic skill.

I'm sure doing it right costs, but why does it cost so much more than the public education that made me literate? Even while I defend the right of teachers to be treated well on the job, I would like to see this problem addressed.

One other thing is that we property taxpayers could use some help from the income taxpayers to fund education, because the current system hits retirees hard. The state aid to education that Governor Walker just cut did come from sales and income tax revenue, which is why I'm so upset with Governor Walker.

@Alfred -- Where do you think your workers come from? We, the taxpayers are supposed to teach the next generation to read, work with figures, and understand the way the world works so that they can become the workers of tomorrow.

Randy I only hire folks that come from a Catholic or private school setting, I have given up on any MPS graduate.

Randy:

Why should mandatory testing result in 'teaching to the test'? Personally, I see that as a failing on the teacher's part. Instead of 'teaching to the test', they should be teaching the skills and expect the students to perform on the tests using the knowledge they have gained.

@Alfred -- How about Elmbrook or Waukesha Public school graduates?

The saddest thing is that there was a time, back when I was in elementary school, when the public school kids were about one year ahead of the parochial school students.

@Cow Dung --Read any book by Jonathan Kozol and get back to me.

Ed Larson...Are we in a true "free market economy"? My reading of history through the ages is that there are an awful lot of "sweetheart" deals done between "good old boys" that pollute the system. Skull and Bones doesn't just exist for college boys to have a few beers in their organization's club house.

Why fight each other? Dave why can't you teachers simply do your job without bitching and complaining all of the time? All I want is a well educated workforce and from my experience of the last 20 years, public schools have failed! So yes, let me bitch and moan about paying a lot in taxes for a crap product.

Each class of students is different, but teachers use the same lesson plan year after year?
I give respect where deserved, but the whole "poor me" attitude does not garner respect.
"I never had to break up fights, deal with angry drunken parents, or deal with anyone who was suicidal there." I'd guess this is referring to working with your fellow teachers.

Dave I'll start respecting your profession when you all acting like professionals and stop acting like entitled trades people.

Can't educate the kids, but is great at excuses. I guess it is LD. Let's not solve the education problems, as teachers, let's sit around and manufacture excuses.
This attitude is held by few of the teachers that I know, but it is the Dave Kovens of the world that are doing a major disservice to society.

@Dave -- I don't blame the teachers. I blame most of what you cite. And I frankly blame the supervisors and their turmoil for the increasing cost of education. I blame decreasing expectations for that sense of entitlement you mention in the kids. It's almost as if teachers are so thrilled that a student did his or her homework and wrote the paper that they'll overlook the spelling and grammar mistakes. Mustn't make the student feel bad!

Suffice it to say, my son was not raised that way, and my two year old grandson will not be raised that way.

@Greg -- there IS some LD in two of them. With the third, it's pure attitude. There is no respect for learning, proper grammar, or any of those things. It's easier to tutor someone who is willing to learn but has a harder time of it than it is to tutor someone who flips you off when you try. I pity the teachers who have to try to motivate a whole classroom of kids like that.

I think it was Rodney Dangerfield that said "When I was born, the doctor slapped my mother". I understand that times are different and that some parents should be slapped, but reality is that excuses don't solve problems. Port Washington is trying something that caters to the individual student, will it work? I don't know. http://portwashington-wi.patch.com/articles/school-district-signs-on-to-new-technology-in-classroom
At some point you would think that the educators would get together and try what works, rather than using the status quo or trying to reinvent the wheel on their own.

Jamie Escalante, Joe Louis Clark, Michelle Rhee, all had even worse kids to deal with the one's you're describing here, and they were all SUCCESSFULL!!!

One thing all of these great educators shared in common - the teacher's unions adamantly opposed them!

Interesting, isn't it?

Sorry, it was Henny Youngman's mother that was slapped. Facts are important in this conversation.

Correct, Greg.

It was Rodney Dangerfield's mom who tied a pork chop around his neck to get the dog to play with him. It is important to get the facts straight.

"I was an ugly kid. When I was born, after the doctor cut the cord, he hung himself."
Now that was all Rodney.

Gotta love the Borscht Belt humor :-)

"I was over at Grossinger's. I was in the lobby there. That's where I'm staying, in the lobby of Grossinger's. They gave me a room, I walked in - there was no ceiling on the room. I called down to the clerk I said 'there's no ceiling on my room.' He said 'don't worry, the fellow upstairs don't walk around much!'"

Gotta respect the Borscht Belt!

I really miss those old resorts - a uniquely American experience in every regard. Grossinger's was king, followed by The Concord. Ah, the good old days!