I remember the Deltas being the Animal house too. My favorite line from the movie, as we're being told what they become in later life, as John Belushi drives off into the sunset with his cheerleader: "Senator and Mrs. John Blutarski."

@Randy1949....How do you define the "average American"? According to him and the Mormon Church, he is the average American if you lived in 1955.

For lack of a better definition, someone making less than $50k per year, which is reportedly what Mitt makes in one day. He just seems to have a 'let them eat cake' attitude about us.

Romney out of touch? He earned his wealth. It would be fair to ask that about John Kerry who married money, or John Kennedy who inherited his fathers bootlegging money, or Al Gore who grew up in that fancy hotel in DC on his fathers riches. I can keep going but I'll stop with these. I guess if richness matters why is it only negative if a republican is rich? I don't get it.

But this is not 1955.

The problem with Romney is for not a single second of his life did he ever experience insecurity. Now there have been presidents such as the Roosevelts and JFK whose families were wealthy, but they seemed capable of empathy.

Romney seems to lack that quality, plus an ability to relate to people. That incident in prep school where he organized the hair cutting hazing incident seem instructive to Romney's char act, or lack of it. People are there for Romney to use and abuse.

While we don't want bleeding hearts for president, nor is it good to not have someone who lacks a moral core.

"Romney out of touch? He earned his wealth."

Oh, you betcha! Mitt Romney started out as a poor sharecropper's son from the Mississippi delta, and he bootstrapped himself by digging ditches. Get real. He started out as a millionaire's son and played with other people's money and lives until he got even richer.

I don't think he has a clue about how or why some people can't afford their health insurance or why they can't save much for retirement. Just get a job, right? Unless it's a job at a company bought up by Bain Capital.

I'd still like to know how you can make a horse tax deductible.

I don't think that there is any question that Mitt was born into a secure wealthy environment. He, like many other children of wealthy families are afforded opportunities that not offered to the poor, working class and middle class. He was able to attend the right schools where he was able to network with the sons and daughters of the "movers and shakers". He was born into the 1% nation, grew up in the 1% nation and lives in the 1% nation. If you look at his post secondary education he began at Stanford, went on a 2-1/2 year mission to France and returned to attend Brigham Young University. He then earned a J.D. and MBA from Harvard and was recruited by many top firms.

when he started Bain Capital he, as a general partner, did not put any of his own money in and accepted little risk. Through his hard work and diligence he was able to turn the operation into a winner. Mitt has always been in the right place at the right time. Just like with the War in Vietnam, he missed the whole thing by being in school or on a mission to France. Bottom line is that he hasn't faced the same kind of challenges as the non 1%. If he hadn't achieved what he has, then it would have been a disappointment for someone starting so high up the ladder.

Slight correction Lyle. Bain assured Romney that there would be no risk,

Lack of a moral core? Incapable of empathy? Mitt Romney????

As a people, the LDS have one of the strongest moral cores Hoffa has personally encountered. Mitt Romney is 1000000 times more righteous than the current joker occupying the White House! Not to mention that they have a reputation as being very generous, and very philanthropic.

Over his working life, Biden has taken home more than $5M, or about $128k annually or more, and yet gave an average of $369 / yr to charity, or .29%.

Many of Obama's records haven't been released, so we don't know a whole lot about him. Since 2000, Obama has earned at least $300k / yr and significantly more since 2008, for an average yearly income since 2000 of about $1M / yr. His current net worth is between $6M - $12M. Since 2000, Obama has made average annual charitable contributions of $28,981, or 2.3%.

While we don't know a whole lot about Romney's yearly income, we do know that this annual charitable contributions, exclusive of the tithings he makes to his church, average around $3.5M / yr, and in the years of 2010 and 2011, this represented 16.44% of his gross yearly income.

So then, let's summarize the average yearly charitable contributions by percentage of income:

Biden: .29%
Obama: 2.3%
Romney: 16.44%

Sure looks to Hoffa like Romney is the more giving, empathetic, philanthropic, moral, contender of those thus far declared in this election.

Care to try again?

Randy, I assume IRS code 183 (activities not engaged in profit/hobby losses) and/or possibly 469 (passive activity loss) provided the tax deduction for the horse, which is not involved in professional activities.

3393, it's possible for someone who earned their wealth to be out of touch. Mitt grew up in a privileged environment and so began his career quite a few rungs ahead of the ordinary college grad. When one is immersed in an homogenous environment of any type, leaving that environment for another has to create a culture shock to some degree.

Mr. Hoffa, charitable giving levels are an inadequate measure of philanthropy. These dollars certainly represent giving from the heart but also for the tax deduction. One could take the cynical view that Romney is most in need of tax deductions.

"Care to try again?" Another t-shirt slogan for the Hoffa attack cannon. Whump! ; )

@JRH...Oops, it is almost the sabbath. : - )

@James R, H,

In some circles it is improper to correctly spell the name of a deity.

All I really know about the religion is what I learned from having them try to convert me -- twice. How many times have the tried to convert you, Hoffa? That was a series of visits from earnest young men in narrow ties showing me slide-shows and giving me the Book of Mormon, which, god help me, I simply cannot slog through.

That, and I've read some history.

@JRH....C'mon, a hit piece? Never on your life. For your information the Mormon Church and Jews get along very well. As you know I don't speak for all Jews.

The Church is very conscious of their image and are careful how they are portrayed in the media. It's not unusual for groups to attempt to avoid negative publicity, especially with the past discrimination that the Church endured. However, the Church's inner workings and finances are closed even to the general membership. I am not criticizing, but attempting to share something about a very fine man who I think is being miss-characterized by both the left and the right.

Mitt is tied to his religion and what is wrong about that? To understand the man you have to understand his deep committment to his religion. The LDS focus is on the Church, family and business. That's not a criticism it's simply a fact. My single point is that Mitt will govern as someone too moderate for the right wing and too conservative for the left; that's just his nature and cultural view of the world.

Lighten up, your trying to read too much into the piece.

@Lyle -

OK, I'll lighten up a little ;-)

But I still don't see Romney as being tied to his religion. Is he tied to some of the tenants of his religion - absolutely. But that's as far as I'd go. And this is true of most people that subscribe to a particular religion or spirituality in general. So is there really a worthwhile issue in any of this?

On Romney's political / ideological platform alone, the political right already realized that he was a moderate / centrist. Did you forget about the primary battle between Romney and Santorum when all of that was thoroughly vetted and discussed ad nauseum? Is the Tea Party crowd happy with Romney securing the nomination - of course not. But they realize that this is not the election to go rogue on, as too much is at stake.

Hoffa has personally admitted to not being crazy about Romney, and ordinarily, Hoffa would be voting a third party or independent candidate. But Hoffa also recognizes that now is not the time to go rogue.

Hoffa also sees Romney's Mormonism as being a strength, as the membership tends to be VERY family centric, something America desperately needs to return to herself if we have any chance of reclaiming our former greatness!

@JRH...Thanks for toning it down. I think you also misread Romney. He's absolutely thoroughly committed to his faith. For you or anyone else to doubt that doesn't understand the commitment Mormons have in their belief. Their belief outweighs just about everything. They are fully committed to the family and preservation of the family, but its the view of a family that is more characteristic of Donna Reed's family than most contemporary families.

@Lyle -

Do you forget that Hoffa's former fiance was Mormon? And I wouldn't exactly call her deeply committed to her faith/church.

As to Donna Reed - you must be referring to her film/television persona as I don't see someone who was twice divorced as fitting in all that well with the faithful Mormon Church membership!

@JRH...I haven't forgotten that your ex was Mormon. I am also not claiming that all Mormons are observant as Mitt Romney. There are plenty of "Jack Mormons", but they are Mormons none the less. But you can bet that Mitt is observant or he wouldn't have been allowed in the Bishopric, the Stake Presidency or State Mission President.

@Lyle -

Funny you mention that term, as she would commonly refer to herself as a Jack-Mormon. The first time she brought me to SLC to meet her family, I had purchased an Angel Moroni lapel pin at a gift shop and started wearing it, attempting to embrace the culture. After all, when in Rome.... Anyway, when she realized that I had done this, she got really upset at me and confiscated the pin, thinking that I was attempting to somehow mock the religion.

Upon my first visit to Temple Square, there were Baptists on the other side of the street protesting the LDS Church and passing out anti-Mormon Bible Tracts.

Even though our relationship didn't survive, it's an experience that Hoffa will never forget!

Jimmy, here's a hit piece from that socialist rag Businessweek -- http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money.

As a highlight, it talks about how the Mormon Church has a lot of aspects about it which are like a business, but that they are highly secretive about it.

@Schmitzy -

Just because the Mormon Church is better at running a business than you are is no reason to be jealous or envious!

@JRH -- I hope you recall how Jesus reacted to the money-changers running a business out of the Temple.

Don't forget the Salt Lake Conference Center - a truly remarkable building!

Furthermore, I only wish our government spent money with as much thought as my Church. If you think people get upset about the misuse of tax dollars, well Mormons take spending Tithes and Offerings pretty seriously. I see my Tithing dollars at work in each and every chapel and Temple constructed, in the humanitarian aide the church gives to member and non-member around the world, in giving relief to the sick and the poor, in running a worldwide missionary program... Where I don't see my tithing dollars spent is on the home that my Bishop pays for himself from the salary he earns from his own job.

My own pioneer heritage goes back to the very early days of the Church in New York. One of the Apostles is even a third cousin of mine. Just as some may say this country was founded by imperfect men and criticize Thomas Jefferson for penning the words, "all men are created equal..." while at the same time owning slaves, the Mormon Church was founded by imperfect men who created banks that failed and nearly put the Church into bankruptcy. I would say that the LDS Church and this country have both had dark days in their histories, and yet they continue forward.

I don't support Mitt Romney because I believe he is a perfect Mormon and is "destined" for higher callings. I support Mitt Romney, because I believe he will uphold the Constitution of the United States and carry out the office of the President as outlined in that document.

@Michele Divelbiss....Can you deny that Mitt's faith and culture are at the center of his life and the work he has pursued? He does represent the Priesthood in the highest manner and has been called many times for positions within your Church. But you have to realize when you and I are talking about being called and being a Priest, most people have absolutely no idea of what we are talking about. Mitt and other faithful members of the Church take their religion seriously and it shows through their conduct of living their lives. If you came to my house, I would not dishonor you by offering you coffee, a beer or wine, which I normally offer to guests, since I understand the application of the "Word of Wisdom". I also have welcomed into my home many missionaries, home teachers and sisterhood members. I am not unfamiliar with the culture and the expectations.

I attempted to enlighten others that Mitt is not just another Baby Boomer cut of the same clothe as Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. He represents that other side of the Boomer Generation that didn't go crazy and I credit it to his LDS faith and culture. As such he has led with quiet leadership.

The mediocrity of the Church and its members is a personae that the Church has promoted. When people see the missionaries in their midst, they see young men or women who are nicely groomed, dressed in a conservative manner and respectful. This is contrary to most other young people of their age group. (continued)

@Michele Divelbiss....(continued) The 100 Temples that you cite is not for the general public and has no real meaning for outsiders except that they are beautiful and inspiring buildings. As you well know, the Temples are for the faithful only and for receiving of the ordinances. So much of what the Church does is not generally publicized for the outside consumer and is done quietly. The Church is a closed society and the membership is very much aware of the expectations placed on them to represent the Church in a manner that would not be damaging to the Church or the individual. I have had friends and colleagues who were called into the Bishop's office because they had become too outspoken about some subject that was bringing potential negative attention to the Church. In short, appearing as being mediocre and not standing out is the desired state rather than splashing individuality for all the public to see.

I don't want to get into what the Church does with their money, because that is something that you can't even speak to authoritatively on, because you don't know. The management of the Church's business is not open to general scrutiny, even to members. The membership is asked to accept with faith and trust that the General Authorities are managing funds and business with the up most care. There is much more more to the Church culture than we have time for in our exchanges. In short, you see Mitt and the Church from the perspective of an insider and I don't.

An acquaintance of the Jewish faith remains outraged because the parents, now deceased survivors of a Nazi prison camp, were discovered to have been posthumously baptized as Mormons. This acquaintance believes this to be an act of sacrilege against family and religion. I would appreciate hearing Mitt Romney's views on this, for though those baptized are no longer living, there are descendents who believe that their own Constitutional right to freedom of religion has been impuned/violated.

@Bren

So what? Ask your friend what he thinks will happen to Mormons when they die and then ask Mormons if they like what he says. I'm sure the feeling is mutual, although in your friend's case he can't claim that his religion did anything about it.

@Taoist -

Thanks for informing all of us of the latest and greatest from the Daily Kos!

@Brian -

How can you accuse Romney of tax evasion when no federal charges have been filed against him? If he had no federal income tax liability in certain years, it's either because in those years he took more losses than gains or he used the tax code to his advantage. So long as it was legal, how can you rightly fault Romney?

Shouldn't you be blaming Obama for not pushing tax reform in the nearly four years that he has been in office?

As you have been consistently critical of both major political parties, again I ask what third party or independent candidate are you endorsing / backing in this race?

@Schmitzy -

You've turned out to be more racially oriented in your postings than AWD!

There must be something you can do to resolve your arbitrary hatred of caucasians. Have you tried counseling?

Yes, the entire country is damned sick of three and a half years of GOP obstructionism. Gee, and you wonder why last summer was bad news economically?Could it have been because of the debt ceiling thing, where a deluded fringe group held the country hostage by threatening to let the country default on its debts? Thanks a lot, TEA Party, for our reduced credit rating and higher interest.

So Keith, you're down with a return to those thrilling days of yesteryear in the early Aughts that started the mess Obama had to clean up in the first place.

Usually it is difficult to run what if, but the GOP has made it abundantly clear that they were going to to everything possible to ruin this presidency, along with the economic lives of many.

Just wait until we open the Pandora's box of Romney's taxes. You can really avoid the gym because you can start sweating now. With every tick of the clock, we are getting closer to the truth of the Great White Hope's finances.

The same with MiniMitt if the GOP is foolish enough to nominate him.

@Keith Best....Back to "Chatty Cathy" responses and talking points. I agree with other commentators, the GOP and Tea Party Republicans have done everything possible to sabotage this administration to the detriment of the entire nation. The right is more like terrorists than citizens helping with the success of the nation. How's it feel to be a traitor Keith?

Sabotage my butt! They're finally doing what we sent them there to do in the first place - cut federal spending!

If that's sabotage, then they are proudly guilty as charged!

JRH -- the TEA Party is a group of economic imbeciles. Penny wise and pound foolish.

Too indiscreet, perhaps? I pay more than $8000 and get none of it back in refunds, because I have no mortgage and no dependent children. I'm slightly annoyed that the tithed charitable donation, which goes in part to build magnificent temples for the faithful, is completely tax deductible.

I deleted it because I noticed my iPad had auto-corrected and changed some words and it didn't make sense. I had to leave the house and did not have time to retype my original comment.

I am all for changing the tax codes and eliminating most tax credits. I certainly did not have children because the government gives me a tax credit. We deduct our mortgage interest, because that's how the tax laws are written, etc.

Tithing is a whole other matter. Your tithes and offerings are really a personal thing between the giver and Christ. The Law of the Tithe states that you are to pay 10% of our increase. Bryant and I pay on our net income. So when we got all that tax refund back, we tithed on it. When Bryant gets a bonus, we tithe on it. When we retire and start taking money out of our tax deferred 401K, we will tithe on it. I do know other members who tithe on their gross, and they are within their rights. I have to decide if I am robbing God of what he requires of me or if I am paying a full tithe. I then have to declare this to my Priesthood leadership at Temple recommend interviews and tithing settlement.

Creating marginal rates that deter further investment and job creation is bad for the entire country. If the government was putting the money towards things that were actually part of its constitutional responsibility and quit spending where it has no business we could bring taxes back in line.

@Michele Divelbiss...You didn't answer my question. I want to know if someone who gains most of their income from unearned sources, such as Mitt Romney; does the Church count that as tithable or not or is it up to the individual member?

The language in the Church handbook hasn't really changed too much over the years on this matter to my knowledge. I don't have a copy handy to actually give a direct quote though.

If you go back to the early days, even Biblical, someone may have "earned" a sheep, cow, a piece of land or any other non-monetary form of payment you want to use. It is then up to the recipient to determine what their increase was and pay an appropriate tithe.

What do you consider "unearned", though? You either earn it or you steal it.
The government likes to make things complicated with things like death taxes. You could have a family run farm passed down to you and then get socked with a death tax you have to pay which could feasibly require you to sell off farm assets. This wouldn't happen with tithing. The person inheriting the farm would simply continue/begin to pay tithing based on the increase from the farm.

http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/

@N. Peske...On reflection mediocrity may be the wrong word to use. But the Church and its members have worked very hard to be accepted as mainstream Americans and shed the perception of being some weird outliers. I lived for many years in Utah and was immersed in the culture and its uniqueness. I am not condemning Mitt or his religion, but to understand Mitt you have to understand his religion and his connection to his religion.

@CowDung...No problem with Catholics or Mormons. Understanding Mormonism gives us a key to Mitt's perceptions and values.

I have friends of the Jewish faith who would probably disagree with you on virtually every value judgement and political position you've taken here over time, Lyle.

You're doing essentially, in a subtle fashion, what has been done to people of your faith and assorted groups labeled as "others" based on race, ethnicity, nationality, economic class and religion over time.

I'm afraid you're allowing your fear of those on the right to get the best of you.

Not saying that you have a problem with either religion, Lyle. It just seems that you might be reading a bit more into his religion than is really necessary. I do have a fear that bringing up his religion as the 'key' to his persona sets a rather dangerous precedent. Doing that tends to put up a roadblock for any candidate that isn't an adherent to the same 'mainstream' Christian religions that our other presidents have been.

@CCtosa...Most of my in-laws are Mormon and wonderful people. I have one son-in-law who is also Mormon. Anti-Mormon bigot! LOL

CCtosa's brief comments have anti Jew, anti Muslim connotations, yet shame others for "bigotry." The Mormon faith has and has had some interesting and controversial doctrine and culture, and the current Republican strategy is to "shame, shame, shame" everyone that even mentions the connection between Romney and the LDS Church. The NRA has a similar "shame, shame, shame" strategy when there is a mad gunman bloodbath, like Aurora or Oak Creek. We are supposed to just be weepy, sorrowful and pray, but cannot talk about how to prevent such future gun bloodbaths.

Mr Ruble you seem to make up 'facts' as you go along, my goodness, you have lived in every of the 50 states, worked in every occupation and now have Mormon inlaws!!! Mr Ruble the sociopathic liar!!

@CCtosa....What facts have I made up as I go along? Be specific. BTW, I haven't lived in all 50 states, only 15 plus a number of nations in Europe and Asia. I grew up like a military brat and moved on average every two to three years. Nine years in the active military took me globally.

CCTosa in his brief comments now displays sociopathic tendencies.

@NObama 2012...The LDS consider themselves as part of the "Lost Ten Tribes" of Israel. In fact, at the time a member receives their "Patriarchal Blessing" they are also informed of which tribe they are descended from. Many I have met in Utah actually call themselves "Rocky Mountain Jews". As a Jew living in Utah, I never had problems with antisemitism and was always treated with the greatest respect for my religious affiliation and heritage. It's funny, the Mormons call anyone not Mormon as gentiles and it is the first time in my life as a Jew that I was labeled a gentile.

@oak creek resident...What has Romney done to where I would hate him? Sure he's a Mormon and a good one at that, but that elicits more respect than disdain. I know how difficult it is for a Mormon to seriously practice his or her faith. For all intents and purposes, he is a moral human being. Of course he's not my first choice for the Republican ticket, Jon Huntsman Jr. was my man. If he had become the nominee I would be voting for him in November.

One of my points of this piece is that not all Mormons are created equal. There are many different groups in the Mormon community and Mitt Romney represents one and Jon Huntsman represents another. Many of the differences come down to when their ancestors immigrated and the relationship to Brigham Young. Those who were with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young from the founding of the Church definitely have the edge when it comes to status within the Church.

If you want to talk about true hatred of the Mormon Church, you need to look to the extreme Christian Right. The evangelicals, Baptist groups, etc are only supporting Romney because they see him as less evil than Barack Obama. The LDS Church has been under constant attack from right wing Christian fundamentalist groups for more than half a century. It's funny how politics makes strange bedfellows.

@oak creek resident -

Lyle is right - the Baptists and other southern evangelicals are constantly attacking the LDS. Hoffa experienced this first hand.

@oak creek resident...Sorry that you find the term mediocre offensive. Perhaps a better term to have used would have been bland. If the US population were to be described in terms of bread, the LDS would definitely be Wonder Bread. There's a reason why more green lime Jello is sold in Zion than anywhere else on earth.

@oak creek resident -

Hoffa doesn't see Lyle as trying to silence anyone. If that were his true intention, he'd simply disable the comments on his blog entries, right?

To the contrary, I see Lyle as encouraging a vigorous and active debate. While Hoffa will rarely agree with Lyle on the substance of his positions and arguments, Hoffa none-the-less respects Lyle as a person, as should you.

I believe that your biggest problem lies in the style of debate that is usually conducted on Patch. But you know what they say about if you can't take the heat....

The objective truth will always reign supreme and carry the day. As to Lyle's point about southern evangelicals and Baptists not liking the LDS very much, that is VERY true. A simple visit to Temple Square in SLC will confirm this to anyone. And yet, I've NEVER seen a group of LDS protesting outside evangelical or Baptist churches, have you?

I fail to see where Lyle was intentionally or arbitrarily ripping on the LDS or Romney in this blog. While Hoffa thinks that some of Lyle's views on the LDS are incorrect, ill-informed, and outdated, Hoffa doesn't believe for a second that Lyle meant any disrespect in using the term 'mediocre,' which Hoffa agrees was a very poorly chosen word to describe the image of the members of this faith.

Lyle has been resorting to name calling recently, which is uncharacteristic of him. Hoffa has suggested a vacation to the Catskills on many occasions ;-)

@Bren -

But you don't even know the Paul Ryan budget plan all that well. Your insistence that it expressly contains billions in tax breaks for oil companies and exempts members of Congress, coupled with the FACT that you have no citations to specific parts of the plan that actually support such assertions, is conclusive and objective proof positive of this!

Instead of accepting the P2P for what it is, you instead choose to judge it through a bunch of unfounded speculation and biased third party analysis. You have to learn to look at primary sources with unbiased eyes if you ever want to find the truth in anything!

Funny that you nail Romney for wanting to hire some former GWB advisers, but have no problem in how Obama did that exact same thing and continues to do so - Ben Bernanke, Tim Geithner, etc. Not very consistent of you Bren!

I believe your greatest concern with Mitt Romney has to do with the fact that he represents the 'conservative' side in this election, an ideology that you've come to despise.

When are you going to start telling the truth about yourself?