Who ... Me? Claiming Responsibility for Government
In an obliquely related blog, a discussion of political engagement and responsibility prompted a post by one replier that included a potent thought. The sense of it I got was, "what if people actually felt responsible for what their governments did?" It came as we discussed a sort of laziness in the American public which manifests by our shallow grasp of policy, the brief buzz themes candidates put forth as goals, and the general lack of research many of us are willing to do in order to get through the political spin and hype.
I responded that, not only did I think this was a critical question, but that I thought it needed follow up. Further, I believe that WE ARE responsible for what our government does to a great extent, particularly as, in this country, we (still) are allowed to speak up without much threat of repression.
In the exact same manner, the policies of Iran's despotic government are pinned to that country at large — with no distinction made in the news or in general conversation between the unfortunate citizens of the country and their medieval adminstration, people all over the world see America as a block.
The image they have of America, is that of Empire, not significantly different from other empires, the British, the Third Reich, the Japanese effort at empire, the Romans, etc. We are larger and capable of far greater destruction ... physically and economically. That's about it. It isn't that we do no good along the way, as did at least some of these empires ... (the Romans made a lot of roads) but our methods are similar, our ambition is limitless and our reach, global.
Now if you don't feel comfortable with that ... and I am sickened by it myself... you haven't read up much on world opinion. Moreover, if you don't like being thought of as a usurper, part of a huge greedy scheme, an "enforcer" of western brand democracy (meaning we hold a lot of the strings), you should try to do something about it. Object to it for instance. If we all stay silent then, effectively, we are approving of government as usual and we are turning over the reins to interests that both have very huge plans and which are not likely to be thinking of your personal welfare.
This is my opinion, and bloggians — blogs ARE opinion ... they don't have to be neutral. I want to say to this idea the respondent had ... "Yes ... you and I are responsible for this country (for the state). We co-produce it. We pay taxes that are used to make it happen. We must pay close attention to the trends. We need to think ... to think hard ... and to think for ourselves.
So what do you think? Responsible ... ? And how do we best act in responsible fashion if so?
I will add that I think the bar is raising for respectful conversation and I greatly appreciate it.
Mike
8:35 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
We elect government officials that are to act on our "best interests". The problem is that Washington DC is a bunch of power grabbers. Ron Johnson found out that he is at the bottom of the totem pole and is basically "powerless" in Washington right now. What we need are term limits on all politicians so that Washington DC can not get to powerful. Actually, our form of government is more dangerous than Irans. It allows for complete fraud and corruption. It allows a politician to be "bought" by contractors who work for the department of defense ala Haliburton and can influence wars more than the opposition enemy. What America needs now is to clean house of politicians and "start over" reclaiming the Bill of Rights. A Govt. "for the people" does not enact laws like the Patriot Act to Americans in jail. Other countries view us at times as bullies and we do try and cram our own western agenda across the world. We should allow for peace and help other countries but pull the aid to countries that do not let us land a helicoptor on them. When the chips are down "big brother" should help but not impose because what you are getting now is a world of hatred aimed right at America. What happened in the Arab Spring in Egypt and other countries may soon come to America. Just look at our own state that is engaged in a political civil war. The shots have not been fired "yet". There will come a day when our government will be overthrown. I wonder how other countries will perceive us then.
Bob McBride
9:03 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
"A Govt. "for the people" does not enact laws like the Patriot Act to Americans in jail."
***********************
How many Americans are currently doing time as a result of the Patriot Act?
WFBuckley
5:17 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
@Mike: Spot on re Johnson. I tried to explain to people who were inclined to vote for him that all his rhetoric about "being a business man" and knowing "how to create jobs" was only rhetoric. There could be no substance to his claims. He is the newbie. He never stood any chance of creating jobs.
It is reassuring that others saw through his hyperbole.
Greg
8:50 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
Herb Kohl has been there forever and has done less than nothing. Give Johnson a chance, he will be good for Wisconsin.
Brian Carlson
8:40 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
I read a piece of research that said 151 of our Congressmen have investments in companies that profited by war. Seems to be a conflict of interest if so....
AudiFan
8:56 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Edward Gibbon in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire noted: “The narrow policy of preserving, without foreign mixture, the pure blood of the ancient citizens, had checked the fortune and hastened the ruin of Athens and Sparta. The aspiring genius of Rome sacrificed vanity to ambition, and deemed it more prudent, as well as honorable, to adopt virtue and merit for her own wheresoever’s they were found, among slaves or strangers, enemies or barbarians”.
This policy worked only when the encompassed populations were assimilated into the Roman culture. Yet Mexicans, legal and illegal, come into the United States with a different language and as alien a set of ideas about the rule of law and social traditions as they might had they arrived from another planet. Confronting this challenge, we disregard the historical lessons from past civilizations. We freely abandon the language and the laws and customs that produced the success of the United States and conform our language, laws, and customs to those of the invaders.
The ‘melting pot’ attitude started by the liberal-socialists in the mid-1920s is speeding up our Empires decline. If we continue on that path, the United States is doomed.
Brian Carlson
9:26 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Audi Fan, May I point out that everyone who came to this country had a "different language," Native American languages were many... the people who came here were invaders, the Spanish invaders controled most of the area we now use the terms Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California for... the Spaniards held this area longer than the United States has, until we took it from them...... The myopia and ethnocentricity of the position you apparently hold is tragic, to my mind. The melting pot was started the minute Pilgrims arrived. Your ancestors were not from this country. They would be appalled by your comments.
Mike
9:14 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Bob, whe the Patriot Act passed people could not deposit more than $3,500 in a bank account or withdraw $3,500 with a suspicious activity report (SAR) being sent to the FBI. ALL are investigated. So your buddy who builds decks for cash on the side gets nailed. I know of 6 people that have done time or were audited by the IRS and had heavy fines from the Patriot Act.
Bob McBride
9:48 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Mike, they did time for not paying taxes, not because of the Patriot Act.
Do you blame the cops who ticket the moron who rear ends the car in front of them while two-fisting a Whopper for the consequences of his actions? Same thing. Stupid earns its own rewards.
Mike
9:26 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Bob, here is a link of an IT professional who was jailed under the Patriot Act for blogging on a forum. This act is indeed very dangerous to Americans and not 1 terrorist has been jailed or caught.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1979820/posts?page=12
Bob McBride
9:54 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Mike, did you read your link? It's filled with "I don't know what Randy typed, but..."
I've been doing this since about 1994, which predates the Patriot Act by quite a bit. If you're stupid (yes, there's that word again) enough to type something inflammatory enough, and someone reports it to the police, and the police elect to get involved, you can, indeed, end up in a heap of trouble. It's happened to many people prior to implementation of the Patriot Act.
Stop blaming the results of the acts of the stupid on a piece of legislation. Again, stupid earns its own rewards.
Mike
2:26 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Bob, what is stupid is that people in this country slowly see thier rights discipated and "do nothing" about it but allow government to continue to be intrusive and invasive. I for one do not want to be the sheep that are lead to be "divided and conquored". I am propogating that government be less involved in our lives like the GOP followers want. They complain that the Dems create too much govt. but in reality the Patriot Act created more govt. waste because not 1 terrorist is in jail because of the Patriot Act but many Americans have been jailed because of it. Like I said before, we are a country that is 1 match away from igniting a full blown war from within.
Bob McBride
3:57 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Mike, stating that the Patriot Act is ineffective is one thing - that may very well be true. Stating that it's to blame for the idiotic acts of a few who've ended up with heavy fines for failing to pay their taxes or, frankly, G-d really knows what went on as regards "Randy", is something entirely different.
Dan B
2:49 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Brian you wrote, "I read a piece of research that said 151 of our Congressmen have investments in companies that profited by war. Seems to be a conflict of interest if so...." So did you if you have a 401K, pension or any other type of investment.
Mike do you wear a foil hat?
Brian Carlson
5:24 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Dan...I dont. I understand your point but when I did have an investments in the market, I opted for social choice investments that were lower yielding but were not part of the military industrial complex, were not huge pharmaceuticals, etc. Of course I didnt do as well as they people who invest in anything...regardless of what the companies are into. But when we pay taxes...of course... we pay for these Bechtels and Halliburtons and KBRs. It makes me sick personally.
Concerned WFB Voters 2009
8:08 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Can someone help with this? Yes, it is off the subject but please overlook that.
A couple of weeks ago, there was a string of comments about recalls and someone made a claim about out-of-state contributions made to support Walker. That was followed by another comment that included a website link to a recent report showing how much $ has been donated to WI candidates by in and out-of-state unions, compared to the donations made by the Koch Bros. Does anyone recall that, and could you share the link? I cannot find it via Google and don't know any other search method.
Thanks. (How's that for a courteous comment?)
Brian Carlson
8:26 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Not sure if this is what you saw.... I have not been blogging on this topic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/scott-walker-recall-10-million_n_1474897.html
Concerned WFB Voters 2009
9:36 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
No, but thanks for trying.
The source was not the Huff post. There were no photos or even colors. It was just a table of Union donations compared with Koch Bros donations.
Greg
8:56 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
It was censored due to the Patriot Act.
Brian Carlson
9:12 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
This thread kind of lost the point of the opening questions.... are we responsible for what our government does or not? I would appreciate it if people endeavored to stay on topic and not veer off to comments about candidates and what not..unless that is germaine to the post.
Greg
9:30 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
I am civic minded and I take responsibility for me and mine. I also try to make my government be responsible, but I really do not take responsibility. The more the government control is local, the more I can make them be responsible. I think that the government's position of controlling us, rather than serving us, has reached it's limits. Taking more of our money and giving it to others is a good example, that's my job. I don't know that I want to take responsibility for a government that would rather apologize than do the right thing.
Brian Carlson
10:31 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
Greg, yeah I kind of go both ways on this question. On the one hand, I am a believer that if people don't speak up when they see things going on they disagree with...then they give it tacit support by doing nothing. On the other hand, its clear as well that government goes ahead with its own agendas...many of them unclear to normal folks...we just dont know what is going on until it has happened....sometimes years later. But in a "free society," given the fact that our leaders aren't dictators and we arent threatened with imprisonment or death (by and large) for criticizing them.... it does seem that the onus is On us... regarding making our opinions known to these folks.