Tosa Businesses and Institutions Tussle with Concealed Carry

To prohibit or not to prohibit weapons on their premises — that was the fundamental question facing a dozen people representing a range of retail businesses, commercial offices, building management, a systems technology company, a non-profit institute and even a church.

In a learning session Thursday sponsored by the and presented by attorney Daniel Finerty, they learned mostly that it's a very fraught question with no easy-to-arrive-at answer.

"This issue is more personal than 99.9 percent of the issues I usually handle," said Finerty, a labor and employment litigation compliance lawyer. "It's a little different than economic issues. It's an area where there are no clear-cut answers."

Wisconsin's new law allowing licensed individuals to carry concealed weapons goes into effect Tuesday.

While the Wauwatosa Common Council earlier this month approved an ordinance to , it's up to private business to decide whether to impose a similar ban.

Tuesday is "the day somebody can walk in with a concealed weapon," Finerty said. "What are you going to tell them? If you do nothing, the default position is that they are permitted."

And, "if you prohibit, you're prohibiting all," Finerty said — licensed and unlicensed carriers alike, concealed or openly carried.

"If you don't, you're really only allowing licensed and legal carriers, because any others are, of course, illegal."

Immunity vs. liability

The law specifically allows a building or business owner to ban weapons, Finerty said, which on its face would seem to make it a simple matter of deciding whether you wanted to or not.

However, it isn't really simple at all.

The state also grants immunity from prosecution to anyone who doesn't prohibit weapons on premises in the event someone is harmed, Finerty said. And it allows for liability against anyone who does ban weapons.

Given that, it might be very difficult even for someone who felt strongly that they wanted to no weapons in their establishment to post a no-weapons sign for fear of prosecution or litigation.

Even trickier, Finerty said, speaking as a lawyer, is that, "Immunity is perhaps not absolute. The law assumes that every licensed person is a good actor. But there are and always have been people who do not follow the rules. I think we all know that."

The moment any licensed person pulls out a weapon for any reason, Finerty said, the playing field changes — and regardless of what the Legislature says — it becomes a matter for law enforcement and the courts, on a case-by-case basis and depending on the circumstances.

On the other side, he said, liability is also may not be an absolute if you do prohibit weapons, if you take proper steps to avoid it.

"What reasonable steps need to be taken?" Finerty asked. "Did you not only post signs but also inform and train your employees and put it in writing? Do you have a procedure in place?

"If someone wants to do harm, a sign is not going to stop them.

"This is going to be fodder for litigation from now on. The law is not necessarily a model of clarity. It is to some extent open-ended. It's going to be a challenge."

In the final analysis, Finerty said, it might be a case of...

'Damned if you do and damned if you don't'

Robert Reinhardt, who operates a couple of small resale shops in the area, said he hadn't given the law a lot of thought until he got an e-mail from the Chamber about the learning sessions. Now, he said, he felt better informed – and more puzzled than ever.

"Say I post signs," he said. "Most of my customers are women. Suppose a customer opens her purse on the counter to get her credit card, and there's a pearl-handled .45.

"What do I do now? Throw her out? Ignore it?

"Most of my employees are $8-1/2-an-hour high school girls. Do I trust them to know what to do?"

Even the church is conflicted.

"For the most part, the sentiment is, 'We don't want guns in the church,'" said Chip Smith of the . "But it is a divisive issue. There are those who are against any ban or are worried about our liability, and those who are just against the whole idea (of allowing weapons)."

Not really an issue at all?

Divisive or not, it may not end up being much of an issue at all, for anybody. Wisconsin is the 49th state to allow concealed carry, and so far there is no body of evidence that it has made a significant difference in terms of gun-crime incidents in the other 48 states, said Don Semega of the .

"It's a non-event," Semega said. "A lot of people will apply for licenses. Many of those who actually follow through with training and start carrying will soon find that it's a lot of work lugging this thing around.

"The luster will wear off. In three to six months, I think, you're going to see it taper off."

One major player on the Wauwatosa business scene has already planned to ban weapons, Semega said. has said it will post a gun prohibition and will call police if any gun is noticed, whether it is displayed threateningly or not.

But police will not necessarily respond with overwhelming force, as is usually the case when there is a report of a gun in a crime in progress.

Assuming that someone licensed to carry is seen with a gun at Mayfair, Semega said, "It's going to be a verbal warning and an escort out of the building."